Itallian Spitfire parts – ID help please….

The first pic does indeed show the remains of the suppressor box. This is mounted on the side of the engine bearers right next to the engine.

The pic showing the seven items: the first item appears to be the azimuth ring from the gyro compass. Amazing it has survived as well as it has having been smashed out of its case.

The lower three items in the same picture appear to be parts of the battery casing.

Anon.

Hi, I’m a historical researcher of air war in my country, the Romagna , in north east of Italy near the old Gothic Line. Excuse for my poor English. You can see our work in our web site www.aereiperduti.net
I can translate the coordinate, was used by 8° Army during war. I try to explain:
Q is the square, 97 is the longitude and 95 is the latitude. Of course is a approximate point, because there aren’t the decimal numbers ( the third number, for example Q.97(1)95(2).
Point Q 97 95 is approximately 2,8 km south of Colla di Casaglia.
Regards
Enzo Lanconelli
[ATTACH=CONFIG]220074[/ATTACH]

Ray Connell’s Spitfire was serial no MK408. The crash site was marked on the battle map by Capt Hughes as being at Q.9795 at 1810 hrs 21st July 1944. I don’t know which maps were used by the SAAF, so I cannot translate that into a civilian grid reference for you. Does anyone else have the ability to translate the map reference?

Many thanks for getting in touch Paul – I will email Ago and hopefully he will respond on the forum – thanks to all who responded!

Best regards

TT

Ray Connell’s Spitfire was serial no MK408. The crash site was marked on the battle map by Capt Hughes as being at Q.9795 at 1810 hrs 21st July 1944. I don’t know which maps were used by the SAAF, so I cannot translate that into a civilian grid reference for you. Does anyone else have the ability to translate the map reference?

7 SQdn SAAF lost one Spitfire on July 20 or 21, 1944
Capt GR Connell (Ray) in Spit LF.IX MK408.
Baled out 6m South East of Firenzuole, evaded capture and was back in his
sqdn by Sept 44.

Do you know someone who could assist me in identifying plane and pilot?

I am Ray Connell’s son.

If it helps to identify, here are some of the combat reports regarding his crash.. It should be noted that his aircraft hit at high speed, near the peak, and was burning on the ground.

Circumstantial Report by Capt. P.H. Hughes SAAF

During the late afternoon of 21st July 1944 Capt. G. R. Connell led a flight of 4 No. 7 Squadron aircraft on an armed reconnaissance. I was flying as his No.3

We took off from Foiana landing ground at 17.25hrs flew northwards to the West of Arrezo to an area NE of Florence where we were instructed to find a target to bomb and to strafe any MT seen on the roads. We bombed what appeared to be a concentration of MT near a little village Vicchio and then flew in a NE direction and strafed MT on a road near Mt Gazzaro SE of Firenzuola. Here Capt. Connell called up and said that he had been hit in the glycol, that his radiator temperature was high and that he was making for home. As we were now being fired on by 88mm. I kept away on his port side and thus kept him free from this ack-ack. Capt. Connell then called me up and asked me to let him know when I saw his aircraft catch fire. I acknowledged this request.

Our area was covered by 6/10ths cumulus cloud from 6000′ to 10,000′ and at this point Capt. Connell had to enter a cloud which was too large for him to manoeuvre around. I called Capt. Connell up and asked if he was O.K. but received no reply. When we arrived on the other side of the cloud and saw no trace of Capt. Connell, I told the other two aircraft to wait for me and I went below the cloud and after searching around the mountains I saw an aircraft burning on the side of a ridge. This mountain peak was about 6 miles S-E of Firenzuola. I was not able to find a parachute, but the country was very ragged and wooded and I could easily have missed it.

I calculate that Capt. Connell was flying at least 2000′ above the highest peak and thus had plenty of height in which to bale.

We then came back to base.

202894V Capt. P.H. Hughes

Extracted from SAAF Official War Diaries – PRO AIR 27 -114 / 171
After being hit while strafing, Capt Connell set course for base, and was actually flying through cloud when he found it was necessary to bale out. Trouble in opening his hood delayed his exit, and when he eventually did leave the aircraft, he was only in the air for about 30 seconds before his fall was broken by trees growing on the mountainside, and before his parachute had a chance of opening properly.

While in the air he had heard bullets whizzing past him, and knew that the Jerries were on his trail. On touching down he scattered his garments, overalls and gloves in a southerly direction, a few yards away from his parachute, and then made off to the north through the bush.

As darkness approached it became much colder, and he made his way to a farmhouse at the foot of the mountain. There he was given food and drink, and later, after much persuasion, he was taken to the Patriot Band, operating in the area, and with headquarters about six miles away.

Capt. Connell stayed with this band for two weeks; according to the ‘gen’ the gave him, the Allied advance was progressing rapidly, and he thought that by staying there, he would soon be overrun by our troops. Eventually realising the the information was ‘duff’, he left them and made his way South. On meeting up with enemy patrols, he sought refuge with a station-master at a lonely wayside station, and was hidden by him in a gully [ My father described it as a cave ] in the side of a mountain for six days. Food and drink was brought to him at night. During the time he was there, German patrols were active not 500′ above and below his hideout.

During his stay with the Patriots, Capt Connell acquired some very valuable military information which he was determined should reach the right quarter as soon as possible. In Italian attire, also acquired from the Patriots, he now set out southwards across the valley, making for Florence which had been taken according to reports that he had heard.

He reached Mt. Giovi, 10 miles N.E. of Florence; only to find that the City was still in enemy hands. In the course of climbing Mt. Giovi, in company with a number of patriots, he was fourth in a line of 9 ascending a narrow trail; a German sentry stopped them and began inspecting the papers which all persons are required to carry – after examining the first three he let them through.

British Forces were still 4 miles south of the River Arno, when, on his own, he tried to get through. He could only make a distance of ten miles, however, because that day the Germans had declared the whole area as a “dead” area, and any civilians were liable to be shot on sight.

He went back to his old haunts on Mt. Giovi, one of which was a loft in an old farmhouse on the northern slopes. One evening the Patriot sentry failed to observe the approach of a German patrol, and Capt Connell, to escape, jumped though a back window and hid in a hedge. A member of the patrol commenced beating the hedge with his rifle butt, working along its length, but luck was once again with Capt Connell and the Jerry stopped his search about 2 yards away, uttering murderous curses.

Five days later he made another attempt, this time in daylight. With some Patriots he walked along the road, passing German working parties, and being passed by German transports. Five tanks approached, and in attempting to get ahead of them and across the top of the hill, Capt Connell ran across the skyline and was seen. Patrols were sent out after him – three men on each side of the mountain, firing as they came. (On this score Capt Connell reports that the Germans never move through wooded areas without firing sporadic, but haphazard bursts from Tommy-guns – no doubt to scare the Patriots and boost their own morale) He hid under some bracken, and while lying there, a Hun came and stood next to him, so close that Capt Connell could smell his boot leather – but again he remained undetected.

After two hours he crawled to the top of the mountain, and the patrol went right past him without seeing him in the open. Our guns were shelling the tanks as he went down the mountain past them, and for another two hours he hid in a German slit trench. On descending the reverse slopes of the mountain he ran into a German mortar company which had taken up positions there – they were about 200 strong, and he walked among them for about 50 yds before turning off on a side trail. When our guns started shelling the positions he took shelter in a dug out and when a shell burst four yards away, he just managed to get out before the dug-out collapsed.

For the next two days there was considerable activity in the area, after which the guns withdrew and the patrols thinned out, and on a Patriot report that the mountain top was unoccupied, he walked through unhindered, into the midst of the first/12th Field Frontier Brigade of the 8th Indian Division. This was on September 9th, seven weeks after he had been shot down.

Hope this helps to determine if it was his Spitfire.

Many thanks for all your input folks…!

TT

Could the first pic be part of a suppressor box?
Cees

No, the top middle is the magneto switch. Cant immediately identify anything else.

I think these are all cockpit remnants – fragments of the instrument panel, I believe top left is the directional gyro numbers, could the middle top be the throttle box (with the ball joints being where the throttle and RPM controls have the control rods connected), the top right fragment reads “IGHTS” so I’m assuming that label says “LIGHTS”.

Thanks Mark….
much appreciated – more info from
from Ago below:

I have collected some more info about this Spitfire:
Unfortunately, old witnesses do ot remember the exact date; the plane went down in July, 1944.

7 SQdn SAAF lost one Spitfire on July 20 or 21, 1944
Capt GR Connell (Ray) in Spit LF.IX MK408.
Baled out 6m South East of Firenzuole, evaded capture and was back in his
sqdn by Sept 44.

145 SQdn lost Spitfire Mk IXc on 14 July but this is out of question:
Spits wree strafing roads close to Pergola; the a/c developed glycol trouble, bellylanded and the pilot was safe;
he was surrounded by friendly civilians who conduct him over the hills.

601 SQdn lost three Spitfires, in that period:
8 July MH 622 target Rimini, Lt J.E. Sharpe SA 205943V

10 July MH 786 target Leghorn, Lt. D. W. Lee SA 329130V engine trouble / bailed out
(this not matches: it is a different area)

18 July MK 376 target Faenza/Forlì area Sgt. M. Ord Flak

Do you know someone who could assist me in identifying plane and pilot?

This is the upper Merlin engine mount pickup on the ‘Frame Five’ firewall.

Mark

The remains were found in the Apennines mountains N of Arezzo (Tuscany).
The plane was lost between July 11 and July 14, 1944…. believed Spit…

TT