Allow Art Nalls to display his ex-Royal Navy Sea Harrier at UK Air Shows

Or has he done neither, just expressed a vague interest in bringing it to the UK and been told by ‘experts’ that “the CAA will never allow that”?.

Ah, so I am now an ‘armchair expert’, glad to know that. However I have more experience of this very problem than anyone who wishes to remain sane should ever have to put up with. Experience, what you get when you deal with real aeroplane and real situation. Oh, obviously from my armchair.

Oh, and as I said above; if you want to operate a Harrier on the G-reg, you will need engine support from the manufacturers, which you wont get. I did register a Harrier a few years ago, but that was as far as it got!!

Bruce

Indeed – my understanding of the situation is that they want to operate it for a short while on the US register, in the UK. That will require permission from the FAA, the CAA, and probably the MoD as well.

There are Vampires operating in the UK at present; I cant see there would be an issue with operating another one, as long as all the requirements from the CAA were met. The issues with Vampires are well known; spar life, wing attachment fitting life, and availability of engines. Apart from that it is a relatively simple machine (except that it was designed by de Havilland, for whom the term ‘simple’ didn’t exist!).

Bruce

………..please sir can we put a Harrier on the civil register.

But is that what he is trying to do? Has he actually approached the CAA to register it here in the UK, or just to operate it at a couple of shows under an exemption? Or has he done neither, just expressed a vague interest in bringing it to the UK and been told by ‘experts’ that “the CAA will never allow that”?

We’re making a bunch of assumptions here based on very few actual facts. Oh, hang on a minute, silly me, this is an internet forum…………

Indeed it’s been a few years by now, but a P-51 is a completely different beast (from many standpoints, including the CAA’s) than a Harrier. The P-51 is by now a very well ‘known’ entity on the civil register so having another one is small potatoes. A Harrier is still seen as a ‘complex’ type by the CAA and within that category the Vulcan is still the only ex-mil jet that has managed to get airborne again, and that was by working very much hand in hand with the CAA during the whole process. Art Nall’s Harrier is a lovely beast but I very much doubt that he’s talked to the CAA a lot during the restoration process.

It’s not the ‘experimental’ category that’s the problem. It’s the complexity and safety record of the type, combined with the ‘paper trail’ etc.

we have Sea Vampire XG743 she is in excellent condition once we took the naff fabric off the timber is undamaged and we have all the paperwork ,logs etc from the day she was delivered from de Havillands to being delivered to DX. She is with only 1200 hrs TT out of 3,000 life expectancy easily the best Vampire candidate in existence to go back in to the sky .I provisionally asked the questions the guy nearly choked on his morning coffee and biscuits and has not spoken to me since so I think that says a lot even with three flying in the uk currently they dont seem keen on a simple jet (as the vampire is)joining its brothers back in the air so I can guess what the response will be to please sir can we put a Harrier on the civil register.

But power to his elbow if he can do it but I wont hold my breath.

Mike E

Never say never. How many years has “Miss Velma” been flying in the UK now under US experimental registration?

Indeed it’s been a few years by now, but a P-51 is a completely different beast (from many standpoints, including the CAA’s) than a Harrier. The P-51 is by now a very well ‘known’ entity on the civil register so having another one is small potatoes. A Harrier is still seen as a ‘complex’ type by the CAA and within that category the Vulcan is still the only ex-mil jet that has managed to get airborne again, and that was by working very much hand in hand with the CAA during the whole process. Art Nall’s Harrier is a lovely beast but I very much doubt that he’s talked to the CAA a lot during the restoration process.

It’s not the ‘experimental’ category that’s the problem. It’s the complexity and safety record of the type, combined with the ‘paper trail’ etc.

Later series have a taste for hud/pec covers !

Nah, I had a plan in place for that…

Perhaps they were worried that you might leave the silica gel bags in place before trying to fire it up Bruce. 🙂

I went to Rolls a few years ago with a request for product support for early series Pegasus engines. They took me seriously – full board seriously, and politely declined.

I doubt much has changed.

Bruce

The official word a couple of years back was that the FAA regional office in the UK has not got the man power to even consider this, and the CAA were not playing either. There may be an exemption in the case of Miss Velma but if you add the Harrier’s in-service accident rate to the equation then it is not going to happen. Sorry if that upsets people, it is just the case. Think Lightning but also on the Experimental category.

Sadly you can sign as may petitions as you like but it will not happen. The reason for this is that the aeroplane is certified as an experimental in the US and neither the CAA or the FAA will support the use of an experimental aeroplane in the UK. The only way it would happen is if the aeroplane was fully on either the US or UK register and since that would require full recertification it is not going to happen.

Never say never. How many years has “Miss Velma” been flying in the UK now under US experimental registration?

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=251RJ

Sadly you can sign as may petitions as you like but it will not happen. The reason for this is that the aeroplane is certified as an experimental in the US and neither the CAA or the FAA will support the use of an experimental aeroplane in the UK. The only way it would happen is if the aeroplane was fully on either the US or UK register and since that would require full recertification it is not going to happen.

Is this a serious proposition to bring it to the UK, with the necessary funding available, support for the aeroplane arranged while it is in the UK and airshow organisers on board, or are they just stirring the pot to see what happens? Is there not an exemption available to operate an aircraft under FAA registration for a limited time in the UK? Are they wanting to register it in the UK, and is this what the CAA are refusing to allow?

More details of exactly what they are planning, and what the CAA’s response is (if indeed they have made a specific request to the CAA and been denied) would be useful