de Havilland Devon or Dove?

I’m glad to say that FM1056 [former RNZAF NZ1823] has been worked on and is in much better condition than shown in the pic, which was taken some years ago.

Are you indicating that NZ1823/FM1056 is still in existence?

I thought that the only Devon preserved in Malaysia was FM1051 at KL, which went new to Malaysia and is not ex-RNZAF.

Southwind – don’t suppose you have any more documents for RNZAF Devons do you? Specifically any with dates going to/from DH for maintenance etc?

Hi guys,

I have had a bit to do with the exRNZAF DH104’s, and I believe I can shed a little light on the Devon or Dove?

The only difference between the two is the Devons had a MoD Representative on the production line. The other internal differences were down to the order. As such all RNZAF DH104 are in fact Doves. The name Devon was picked up after they arrived in NZ.

As for the plate above the door that is a factory fit and all RNZAF doves had one.

The data plate on all components are for Dove’s, and I have a copy of the original acceptance certificate, see attached

…and I sent a reply straight afterwards by PM. Nothing heard. Got your second PM today and will reply shortly..

Nothing received Lee. Last message from you in my pm box was on 8th May 2011!

Lee – Sent you a PM ages ago offering my collection.

…and I sent a reply straight afterwards by PM. Nothing heard. Got your second PM today and will reply shortly..

Boringly, perhaps, the name was changed because the RAF gave geographic names to their transports. The military version of the DH Flamingo became the Hertfordshire. Fighters used to have bird names (Nightjar, Heron, Siskin, Gamecock, Grebe) but this was changed to more aggressive names.

Dont laugh – watched Flash Gordon last weekend.

At the beginning he flew out in what looks like a Dove.

Robbie Coltrane was the ground crew! Then at the end it says it was filmed n Skye.

Blue Peter presenter also was the chap killed by the tree insect.

Posted by Fariz:

“As the plate does not have the c/n no. am I right in assuming that it’s not a manufacturers plate but was fixed after the aircraft was preserved? The Royal Malaysian Air Force Museum refers to it as the Dove”

No – the plates were in the aircraft when they were retired from military service. I would suspect these plates have been in the aircraft since they were received new from de Havilland.

Could they be so-called ‘Fire Plates’ to identify, heaven forbid, a burnt-out airframe? Such plates are usually engraved stainless steel, I can’t tell if the one in question is.

DD

Allegedly – the story goes that the name was changed to Devon because the Air Min preferred not to name an aircraft after the bird of peace. As far as I know, a Devon is a Dove and the differences are minimal – radio and aerial fit, jettisonable cabin door, crash hand holds, Very pistol, dinghy and sunshade roof.

Edit – and of course, both Devon and Dove share the same DH104 model no

If anyone has any interesting period photos of Doves, Devons or Herons then I’d like very much to hear from them (via PM) in connection with a forthcoming project….

Lee

Lee – Sent you a PM ages ago offering my collection.

Posted by Fariz:

“As the plate does not have the c/n no. am I right in assuming that it’s not a manufacturers plate but was fixed after the aircraft was preserved? The Royal Malaysian Air Force Museum refers to it as the Dove”

No – the plates were in the aircraft when they were retired from military service. I would suspect these plates have been in the aircraft since they were received new from de Havilland.

Devon Dove8

Many decades ago as a young loon of an Air Cadet i used to h-hike to Northolt and then scrounge flights in whatever was going to wherever.
One had to arrange to collect a seat from the hangar and fit it in so you had somewhere to sit.
I seem to recall the floor plate of the Devons (VP series) had a stainless foot plate where the steps fitted that read DOVE 8.
As memorable as the 1 shilling (10p) meal ticket that meant you ate like a lord in the Airmens mess wherever you went.
The Devons had originally been with the Met Com Squadron at Hendon i think.
One great trip took us to Bovingdon where we spent a couple of hours ‘hangar flying’ a couple of 633 Mossies from the film.

NZ1823 (c/n 04417) and NZ1824 (c/n 04418) were both supplied to the RNZAF in 1953 as Devon C.Mk.1s. On sale to the RMAF they were converted to Dove Series 8 standard (the equivalent of the military Devon C.Mk.2 Phase 2 standard as used by the RAF) with GQ 70 Mk.3 engines and thrust augmenters and enlarged solid canopy to compliment their existing Series 7 and Series 8 aircraft.

The name Devon was given to military Doves used by the UK, NZ and India. The only difference between these and civil Doves was equipment fitted (radio, generators etc).

If anyone has any interesting period photos of Doves, Devons or Herons then I’d like very much to hear from them (via PM) in connection with a forthcoming project….

Lee

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Your photo is of a Dove 8.( Or if it is an ex RNZAF example has been fitted with 8 cooler and ejector exhaust) All the RNZAF Devons were Devon C1.

Yes it is a former RNZAF example. A couple more pics below. Sorry but where are the round air coolers and ejector exhaust located – on the engine? In comparison to the RAF example picture below, I can’t any major differences although on the RAF example, there are 2 boxlike objects – one on the engine nacelle and one below the wing right next to the nacelle – which are not evident on the Malaysian example.

I’m glad to say that FM1056 [former RNZAF NZ1823] has been worked on and is in much better condition than shown in the pic, which was taken some years ago.

The plate fitted by the main entry door on at least two aircraft ( NZ1805 and NZ1806) does however refer to the aircraft as Dove:

As the plate does not have the c/n no. am I right in assuming that it’s not a manufacturers plate but was fixed after the aircraft was preserved? The Royal Malaysian Air Force Museum refers to it as the Dove.

From – http://www.adf-serials.com/nz-serials/nz1801.shtml

Communications aircraft – NZ1823. Shipped to New Zealand on “Brisbane Star” and assembled by De Havilland NZ Ltd. BOC with HQ Unit RNZAF on 21 October 1953. Placed in long term storage as a spare. Removed from storage on 27 August 1966 and flown to Wellington by RNZAF Hercules for modification by Hawker Siddeley prior to being presented to Royal Malaysian Air Force. Aircraft departed Whenuapai 17 February 1968 and was handed over to RMAF at Kuala Lumpur on 29 February 1968 becoming FM1056.

Communications aircraft -NZ1827. Shipped to New Zealand on “Brisbane Star” and assembled by De Havilland NZ Ltd. BOC with HQ Unit RNZAF on 21 October 1953. Placed in long term storage as a spare. Removed from storage on 27 August 1966 and flown to Wellington by RNZAF Hercules for modification by Hawker Siddeley prior to being presented to Royal Malaysian Air Force. Aircraft departed Whenuapai 17 February 1968 and was handed over to RMAF at Kuala Lumpur on 29 February 1968 becoming FM1057.

I always thought that ‘Devon’ was the name given by the MoD to the Dove in UK military service and the RNZAF just adopted the name.

Yep they must all have the Dove plate over the door as NZ1804 has it as well.

Agree that all literature ( including official) refers to the RNZAF aircraft as Devons due to military fit. The plate fitted by the main entry door on at least two aircraft ( NZ1805 and NZ1806) does however refer to the aircraft as Dove:

Your photo is of a Dove 8.( Or if it is an ex RNZAF example has been fitted with 8 cooler and ejector exhaust) All the RNZAF Devons were Devon C1. Other than equipment fits the only major difference was a jettisonable entry door. The RNZAF a/c were configured as transport, Nav trainer or Signaller trainer. 1801 and 1802 were Doves and used as exec transport. The two that went to Malaysia were virtually unflown as they had been in store as attrition airframes and were so far down in Modification status that it was not worth doing anything with them. The last 4 (?) Devons on inventory with the RNZAF were SOC last year from the Tech School at Woodbourne, but two have gone up to Ohakea for the Historic Flight.
All of the above is from memory as I am stuck at home recovering from surgery

They are all Doves but military ones are called Devons. It depended on who the initial customer was off the production line as to which it can be.

Interior fit was to customer specification so that depended on the user and the role the aircraft fulfilled as to what was fitted.

Enignes depended on Mk/Series – Series 1 and 2 (RNZAF) were 340hp (+6 atmospheres boost, 2800RPM), flat rectangular oil coolers, standard exhausts.

Series 7 and 8 had round oil coolers (per the photo) and augmented exhausts (per photo) which used exhaust thrust to add power (+8 boost, 3100RPM).

Not sure about the series between those.

RNZAF Devons had a flatter perspex canopy, later series or modified aircraft had a higher,solid canopy (per photo) giving more head room and overhead switch panels.

I seem to recall Devons had life raft storage.