Tornado F2 and F3 ADV

I was a member of one modification team (there were two) installing outboard pylons to F3’s. No structural Mods were needed and rods and swivels were installed and rigged as per GR’s. We must’ve done about a dozen or so.
The new wing kit was installed for fitting ECM gear to aircraft going to Gioai del Colle (Spelling!) during the mid 90’s.
The whole gear weighed almost a half ton and was a typical OEM disaster – making the jets fly at full throttle to push through the induced drag. Reducing engine life and increasing Airframe fatigue too. The cabs were limited to low G turns too IIRC.
Can’t say how long the ECM lasted (But I’m sure it wasn’t long) and I assume the Wing Pylons were removed but probably not the internal swivel gear.

Thank you

Ah right, in that case no, the outer pylons are not AAM capable and GR4 cannot carry AMRAAM

Sorry, I knew about the AIM-9’s / ASRAAMs on the inboard pylons but I’m wondering about ASRAAMs / AMRAAMs on the other pylons.

The GR4 carries its AAMs on stub pylons attached to the main inboard pylons. Missiles will be either The 9L or now more commonly ASRAAM

A bit of a bump with a slight variation on the original question. Could the Tornado GR1 and can the GR4 carry AAM’s on their pylons? Is the on board computer programmed to operate these weapons?

It was a mod in the early 2000s proposing a SEAD role for the F3 fleet – a few aircraft were modified but the plan was not continued (F3 community will say the GR mafia killed it!)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DuXi40TWxNs/T7pis0tGQSI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/8turvmkbLR4/s1600/Tornado+F3+ALARM.jpg

Woohoo – My 1000th post!

Quite right Dave… The correct designation for these aircraft were EF.3 and operated by 11(F) Sqn!

Taken from Wiki:

A further upgrade, disclosed in early 2003, was the integration of the ALARM anti-radiation missile to enable several Tornado ADVs to conduct suppression of enemy air defence (SEAD) missions. The F3’s existing radar warning receivers formed the basis of an Emission Location System (ELS), which can be employed to detect and locate operational radar systems in the aircraft’s vicinity. These modified aircraft were re-designated Tornado EF3 and operated by RAF No. 11 Squadron RAF.

The Tornado J proposal to Japan in the mid-1980s ( Edit: based on the ADV airframe but with air-to-surface modes and ordnance for the requirement ultimately fulfilled by the Mitsubishi F-2 ) had the outer hardpoints fitted with pylons and ASRAAM rails. Will try to find a brochure pic..

Edit: I was sure I had seen a pic, but WAPJ 31 states that whilst the third ADV prototype had its outer pylons reactivated for Tornado J photo sessions the images were not released.

F3 didn’t carry ALARM, it was used by the GR fleet.

It was a mod in the early 2000s proposing a SEAD role for the F3 fleet – a few aircraft were modified but the plan was not continued (F3 community will say the GR mafia killed it!)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DuXi40TWxNs/T7pis0tGQSI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/8turvmkbLR4/s1600/Tornado+F3+ALARM.jpg

How many ALARMS could the EF.3 carry and which pylons were used? How often were these carried and how many aircraft were so modified?

F3 didn’t carry ALARM, it was used by the GR fleet.

How many ALARMS could the EF.3 carry and which pylons were used? How often were these carried and how many aircraft were so modified?

Tornado F3

In Gulf war 1 the only pods the F3 carried were Phimat chaff pods – these went under the inner wing pylon or replaced a sidewinder. After Gulf war 1 the F3 adopted the towed decoy on the outer wing pylons – balanced with a Phimat on the opposite wing.
As to fatigue keeping fuel / weight in the outer wings actually reduced fatigue.
The whole purpose of ASRAAM is that you don’t have to turn and fight a more agile opponent – the missile does the work.
A lot of misconception surrounds the F3 in combat – True you couldn’t win against an F15/F16/18 but you could easily beat an F4- Mig 23 or Hold your own against a Hawk at low level – all depends who the other pilot was !!

If you dig out videos of F3’s in the Gulf in ’91 self defence pods are clearly being carried on the outboard wing pylons.

I have a suspicion these were replaced by countermeasures incorporated into two or all four missile pylons on the inboard wing stations.

In it’s later years i understand the F3 crews developed some interesting surprises using the ASRAAM, although trying a turning encounter versus a Mirage or similar at close range was still not a sensible ploy.

As I understand it, outboard pylons were not normally fitted due to fatigue / stress limiting

I’ve got a very soft spot for the Tornado F3 and always feel sorry for it when it is described as not being a good ‘dogfighter’. The thing is, it was never intended to be (and it was built on the airframe of a (fighter) bomber).

To me, it is a bit like saying the Mosquito was a bad aircraft because it couldn’t ‘dogfight’ with a Fw190!

It is a great pity that so few have been preserved but the attitude it attracts goes some way to understanding why nobody bothered to preserve any Stirlings, Halifaxes or Whitleys!

Sidewinder is essentially a dogfight missile.

The Tornado was only ever a ‘hide a long way from the enemy, fire off a couple of missiles and scoot quick before the survivors blow you to bits’ type.

Get involved in a dogfight in a Tornado and there was only ever one outcome.

Moggy

(I have no pretence at being a paraffin-burner expert. The above could be total rubbish, but it’s predominantly what I have ever heard from pilots)

Another one to look forward to then SF!:)

Haynes Tornado Manual publication 2013

Without wishing to steal Marks Thunder !! It will all be in the book !!!
The original F2 had 2x Aim 9L on the wing pylons – it was an easy modification to add 4 Aim 9L on the F3 this later became ASRAAM or Aim 9M
The Wing on the F3 is pretty much identical to the GR1/4 so the outer hard points were always there. 4 x short range missiles and 4 x long range and a gun were pretty much enough

The F.2 could carry two, and the F.3 could carry four Sidewinders on the wing pylons, aswell as the fuselage mounted Skyflash/AMRAAMs and cannon, seems plenty of fire power for a defence fighter.