Red Tails DVD

Just watched it for the first time – kids bought me the DVD for Christmas. Found the dialogue a little grating in places but overall, not bad. Have seen much much worse. I guess that they feel they have to include a bit of romance/human interest etc to remind the rivet counters that there was more to life than … counting rivets?
Wonder if they will make a movie about the Dallachy Strike Wing next 🙂

Ignoring most of the combat sequences, the movie was quite good, IMHO.

Ah! that was the answer I was looking for, so it was a real move. I think
the problem was it may not have been done so well on screen which is why
I questioned it to start with. I think some faith has been restored (to a
small degree) with CGI.:)

Oh, any my comment did not help?

Of COURSE it is a real move!
We have seen variants of it all the time.

Another maneuver is Snap Roll, again needing a stalled wing to do it, however what happens is in Snap Roll, you roll OPPOSITE of the direction of stick.

In the Dogfight example by Brian, in doing the maneuver he lost 2000ft recovering control and airspeed of his p51. Had the 109 pilot been better, he would have instant pulled up and over, keeping an eye on his prey, then reengage. With alt and speed, Brain would be very vulnerable, and he said it very clearly in the video, he was very lucky.

Just watched it for the first time – kids bought me the DVD for Christmas. Found the dialogue a little grating in places but overall, not bad. Have seen much much worse. I guess that they feel they have to include a bit of romance/human interest etc to remind the rivet counters that there was more to life than … counting rivets?
Wonder if they will make a movie about the Dallachy Strike Wing next 🙂

finally got to watch it……ok…..I did like the American Bomber colonels choice of trench art on his desk….a Hampden and a Beaufighter!

Yes, you’re right,of course. I guess what I was thinking was that Lucas paid the marketing expense for the film, since no distributor would touch it, and he made back that $40 million and then some.

Gross box office takings less the theatres’ cut means that I’m sure he didn’t come close to recouping even the marketing costs.

Red Tails cost $58 million to make, and they spent $40 million in marketing, and it’s box office is 49.9 million so far. Pretty big loss.

Yes, you’re right,of course. I guess what I was thinking was that Lucas paid the marketing expense for the film, since no distributor would touch it, and he made back that $40 million and then some.

It most definitely was promoted as a teenager’s adventure film. George Lucas gave any number of interviews, in print and on TV, in which he specifically said his ideal audience was 15-year-old young men in need of role models. Lucas also contributed handsomely to our organization.

In that case I will apologise unreservedly, I was completely unaware of those Lucas interviews. With 20/20 hindsight (a wonderful thing) I realise now most of the advertising for the film I took notice of was through aviation magazines and forums, so I’ve obviously got the completely wrong idea. My apologies again and thank you for the horses mouth account Stepwilk. Nothing like a few firsthand facts to set a mind straight!

“It’s not fiction. It has been done. Many WWII Fighter aces witnessed it and performed it, particularly in the P-51D. It is a gutsy manoeuvre that can go wrong if not executed correctly.

It requires a high enough speed for the rudder to work effectively, but slow enough to spill off all of said speed.
You essentially stall the plane by jamming the rudder full deflection, cutting throttle and snapping back on the stick”.

Ah! that was the answer I was looking for, so it was a real move. I think
the problem was it may not have been done so well on screen which is why
I questioned it to start with. I think some faith has been restored (to a
small degree) with CGI.:)

Made by a guy who just gave $2bn to charity I don’t think he would care as he always said he want to tell a story not make a profit.

With the exception of the Star Wars films nothing he has made himself has made much look at Howard the Duck!!!

Curlyboy

I was just correcting an inaccurate statement in a previous post. On the other hand if he had told a well crafted story, then maybe he would’ve made a profit too. Film people always seem to say they don’t care about profit when they don’t make one.

CGI is cheaper and can only get better with time.

Not necessarily. Bryan Singer’s film Valkyrie utilised two genuine P-40s when it was found that a CGI alternative would cost more.

It’s just a film and id rather watch many more of the same regular than wait 10 years for a film with real aeroplanes.

CGI is cheaper and can only get better with time.

The quality of the CGI has nothing to do with peoples complaints in these matters. There are ample examples of completely convincing CGI.

There are two threads on this very forum where forumites are convinced of some bad CGI, only for people in the ‘know’ to show up with proof they were indeed real or life size props.

What people are seeing and complaining about is what Producers and Directors want to do with CGI. I find it baffling that this does not seem to sink in.

If the film makers could get real aeroplanes to whizz around like x-wings they would absolutely have that happen.

I’m sure I’ve made this point before, but a great example is Flyboys. The visual effects company went to great lengths for accuracy (motion telemetry applied from an actual plane!) only to have that thrown out by the producer as it wasn’t exciting enough. That producer was also responsible for Independence Day. That should really tell you everything you need to know…

It’s just a film and id rather watch many more of the same regular than wait 10 years for a film with real aeroplanes.

CGI is cheaper and can only get better with time.

Red Tails cost $58 million to make, and they spent $40 million in marketing, and it’s box office is 49.9 million so far. Pretty big loss.

–

Made by a guy who just gave $2bn to charity I don’t think he would care as he always said he want to tell a story not make a profit.

With the exception of the Star Wars films nothing he has made himself has made much look at Howard the Duck!!!

Curlyboy

Red Tails cost $58 million to make, and they spent $40 million in marketing, and it’s box office is 49.9 million so far. Pretty big loss.

–

By the way, if anybody wants to watch a fabulous film with airplanes–I hesitate to call it an “airplane movie,” since it’s so much more than that–you can stream “Twelve O’Clock High” from Netflix. The original Gregory Peck/Gary Merrill/Dean Jagger version.

I saw the original when it first came out in 1949–I still remember driving to the theater with my father, through a snowstorm in our surplus military Jeep–and I’ve probably watched it a dozen times since, most recently night before last.

It helped, of course, that the screenwriter, Sy Bartlett, had been a B-17 pilot in combat. And of course all the airplanes were real.

In all fairness, I did quite enjoy it on the big screen. The girlfriend even enjoyed it. Of the three films most often commented on for their historical accuracy, effects etc in recent years, it’s probably the best.

“It was a ‘Boys Own’ adventure movie, based on a true happening. It was entertainment” How come it wasn’t promoted as such then?

It most definitely was promoted as a teenager’s adventure film. George Lucas gave any number of interviews, in print and on TV, in which he specifically said his ideal audience was 15-year-old young men in need of role models (i.e. black and probably from a single-parent household). He wasn’t trying to make a documentary and he wasn’t trying to make a film for 60-year-old nonpilot rivet counters.

I’m a member of TAI (Tuskegee Airmen Inc.), so I take somewhat personally the constant ragging of this film, which in fact turned out to be strongly popular among young audiences and made back its cost and then some (much of which Lucas had footed himself), which surprised many naysayers. Lucas also contributed handsomely to our organization.

….One instance was where a Bf 109 appears to
do a sharp rudder kick, the plane does a u-turn in mid-air and is
suddenly flying the other way destroying the pursuing plane? This
was seen again later in the film with a P-51D doing the same move.

Anyone else see this among other ‘aeronauctical fiction?’

It’s not fiction. It has been done. Many WWII Fighter aces witnessed it and performed it, particularly in the P-51D. It is a gutsy manoeuvre that can go wrong if not executed correctly.

It requires a high enough speed for the rudder to work effectively, but slow enough to spill off all of said speed.
You essentially stall the plane by jamming the rudder full deflection, cutting throttle and snapping back on the stick.

Here is an ace explaining a similar move:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIi_j-nZVHg

There is a video of an ace describing the exact move you find fiction, I just can’t find it.

Get over it !! It was entertainment ..not filmed to be pulled apart by so called arm chair dog fighters !!!

…..or praised by so-called armchair film critics. Ease up pal, there’s no need for such a vehement attack on another forum member. The film was touted as an accurate story of the Tuskagee Airmen. It was never marketed as an Indiana Jones adventure film, which was just as well because it failed in that respect too. I lasted ten minutes before nausea kicked in. Bloody awful script and an expectation the film would succeed because of CGI alone. Wrong!!

..but what about Amelia? The last big aviation movie that made an impact was, as I recall, The Aviator. And, as much as I hate to say it, Pearl Harbor before that….

I enjoyed Amelia a lot, and The Aviator even more so. Pearl Harbour, I think, made an impact because of the hype, the money spent and the cast. It sure as ******y wasn’t because of an excellent script, believable characters, historical accuracy or suppressing my desire to vomit.