Hi,
I wonder if you can provide some assistance in identifying the following 748 nose section that is curently @ Dumfries Aviation Museum : –
Here is a link to it @ Perth
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwshack/7411671284/in/set-72157623077943664
It looked to be a Genuine Nose as it looks to have been cut from a whole 748 fuselage. It came from Perth, where it was first noted in 2004 along with another Cockpit section that was marked as an ATP, with both examples being stated as have come from Woodford, although it may have been Chadderton.
The Colours that it is in are similar to that of : –
http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1126326M.jpg
although the colours may not be an indication to its peevious identity.
For those who worked at Woodford were you aware of any 748 or ATP Cockpit Training Aids, and what airframes that they came from?
Production Lists do not provide any real assistance, although there are 17 possible airframes that were scrapped in the UK, although I have not yet researched the Andover’s for possible contenders. To date I have managed to rull out 6 , with a further 2 in the process of being rulled out.
Having checked out the cockpit for serial numbers or build numbers of the components that are left I have only been able to find : –
In the side of the cockpit outside: –
and on the back is this number
this may mean something to someone who had it
now for some general shots : –
On the floor there is a handle that may be the Gust Lock, which may give a clue to the origen as the Argentinan machines had a different Gust Locking system to the later 748’s that lead to the loss of G-BEKF MSN 1542 @ Lerwick
Now to the serial numbers on the components that are left : –
This part may be a not have been an original
It in now over to you and all information on 748’s is welcome, as if I can eliminate another aircraft I will be closer to finding out the identity of this one!
I thank you for your time, and any assistance that you are able to provide
By: Johnny Kavanagh - 18th November 2012 at 23:17
I was one of the crew who collected this from Perth for the museum at Dumfries. We were shown the ATP which is safely tucked up inside being converted to a simulator by the students, and were told that ‘our’ cockpit was at one point part-converted but the project was aborted. This may explain the lack of original looms etc. The college have removed a section of cockpit wall to use as an instruction for students – window mechanism or suchlike – and were to scrap the remains, but called us first.
We really don’t need another project at the moment so the plan is to store it off site,and hope that by the time we get round to doing anything with it (at least 3 years!) the college will be finished with the chopped section and we may have a chance of reconstuction. If not, who knows. It may yet become a tradeable item to swap for something else – we purposefully have not added it to the museum register (with the express permission of the donors) to allow us flexibility in the future.
It would still be nice to know it’s ID though!
By: andyxh558 - 18th November 2012 at 21:38
This front end was the proceedures demonstrator at woodford and was used to show potential customers what the cockpit was like. the last time i saw it was 1990 and it was fully equipped and powered up. such a shame it has been reduced to this.:(
By: Fouga23 - 18th November 2012 at 21:23
As if on que:
C/no.1743, ff 11.8.76 built for Belgian Air Force as a Mk.2A LFD. Temp serialed G-BEEM 9.76. Del to Belgian AF 30.9.76 as CS-03. Wfu Weelde, Belgium 12.02 and used for spare. Ultimate fate of front end, not known to me.
CS03 was shipped to Benin as spares for the flyers we sold them. It was cut in pieces to prevent it from flying.
By: J31/32 - 18th November 2012 at 21:04
I’m 99% sure this was a flyer that was reduced to the cockpit after an accident. I’m sure Argentina was mentioned as its source.
Anon, it was fully equipped as per the aircraft when it left prestwick. All the instruments and controls functioned.
By: Arabella-Cox - 18th November 2012 at 20:44
Cor, that was quick, Viscount. I knew you’d be lurking out there somewhere:D
I share your scepticism about that being a c/n too. Looking at the cockpit section I don’t think it ever flew.
Anon.
By: viscount - 18th November 2012 at 20:25
As if on cue:
C/no.1743, ff 11.8.76 built for Belgian Air Force as a Mk.2A LFD. Temp serialed G-BEEM 9.76. Del to Belgian AF 30.9.76 as CS-03. Wfu Weelde, Belgium 12.02 and used for spare. Ultimate fate of front end, not known to me.
Actually I don’t think that number is a C/no, actually being 5E.SR41743 – just a coincidence that the ‘last four’ match an Avro sequence c/no.
Likewise the felt pen inscription on the nose paintwork “Ser. no.: CTC/748/0” could be interpreted Ser. No.:CTC 1748/0. C/no.1748 ff 11.5.77 delivered to Guyana Airways 22.6.77 as 8R-GEV and flown in Guyana throughout service life. Sold to Calm Air International .99 and broken up for spares .99. Certain this is another blind alley though.
By: Arabella-Cox - 18th November 2012 at 20:14
748 cockpit
If it had previously been a flyer then it has been comprehensively stripped of wiring, piping and control runs as well as all the quilting and insulation before being put to use as a procedures trainer. Perhaps it is (as written on one of the parts) a mock up?
The ATP could have been one of the unfinished production run that were binned. One lay at Blackpool as an evacuation trainer before being scrapped last year.
On the fourth pic there is a number 1743. My 748 srs 2A cockpit is c/n 1756 – quite close, so that may be a clue as to its identity?
We need a production list – Viscount? (the Forum member, not the aircraft).
It’s a shame the side has been chopped out of it.
Anon.
By: J31/32 - 18th November 2012 at 18:35
It is definitely ex Woodford and was at prestwick before Perth. It could be fully powered up and was a complete cockpit when it left Prestwick. There was an ATP as well.
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November 18, 2012 at 6:18 pm