Clock El Alamein

The metal part is from a Ford built B24.

There were B24’s in operation on this date (15th Sept 1942) at El Alamein. I just cannot find out if all of them made it back safely.

Anyone have access to the 98th Bombardment Groups USMEAF data?

Thanks for your thoughts chaps.

Elliot – I do not have an account on WIX.

the comment on HT stamps being US generic was here:

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/astamps.htm

I have been checking and German military records are held at the Bundesarchiv in Freiburg. I doubt my German is up to it.

The name does not appear on this on line list – although I don’t know how definitive it is.
http://www.ww2.dk/lwoffz.html

Richard – thanks for confirming that Schonenberg was not a real division.

It is these thoughts that make me wonder as it is too complicated a construct….

What about US losses on 15/9/1942?

You could try over on WIX – i’m sure they’d help with this if it is off a US a/c.

My thoughts on this.

Army
Rank Oberfeldwebel = UK/US Master Sergeant/Quartermaster Sergeant.

Luftwaffe = USAAF Master Sergeant UK. Flight Sergeant.

Div. W.M. Schonberger. Schonberger is not a named Division.
Div is not a rank that I know. could it mean Driver?

Schonberger is a popular name in germany and the US.

We do not know when or where this clock and stand was assembled.
Was it done in N Africa as the date on the base?

Or was it done in a POW camp later and the date is when the two men were captured, as this would be the time the axis would be retreating?

You are quite correct Brian,this clock was “restored” before I got it.
The Junghans star does appear to be a rose!
It is much later than your model,and the details are cast ,and over painted.
Keeping turning up those goodies.
Cheers Mike

Thanks chaps for all the comments – still no confirmation.

The rank is Oberfeldwebel. I did find a Bernhard Wintermann killed in service in 1942. But all circumstantial.

Versuch thanks – that clock looks unusual – the early ones had the writing cast into the bakelite and that one looks hand painted. The later ones had more heavily cast data plates. Was this from a period in between ? The flowery mark was supposed to be the Junghans logo – I believe.

I have to clean off some silver paint to see the back plate on this one more clearly

Is it possible that it is just a nice clock but it is mounted in a piece of an allied aircraft that was brought down by an Me109? Did the Germans ever refer to El Alamein in the same way we do or did they call it and/or the Battle something else?

This is how FL.25591 looked in its original form…..maybe with a light
dusting of grey paint.
The steel leg sticking out is one of two (front and rear) for stability.
Kind Regards Mike

Nice item, but the mount and its numbers/numbering look US to me not Lufty WW2

Exactly Tony – possibly a Ford license made part if the F is correct. I dont think it is contemporary with the clock…

The HT stamp is a US marking for Heat Treated parts.

P.S. a poor pic of the clock alongside the 1940 Kienzle Navs clock, a Jaeger and your Smiths clock

Nice item, but the mount and its numbers/numbering look US to me not Lufty WW2

Nice little item. Not an expert in anything, but having lived in Germany, the numerals in the date appear to be written in the traditional German form, i.e. the “1” has the extended serif and the “9” (if it is a number 9) has the curled bottom loop as opposed to the usual British style of a straight line. I’m sure a native German might correct me but it certainly looks reasonable…

I’m sure a diligent ‘forger’ would cover such details but would someone just adding it for effect do so too?

Thanks Versuch.

I did go through a long list of Luftwaffe officers and there was no Wintermann there either.

Nice items…no matter what.
The only Luftwaffe BF109 losses I can find are 15/9/1942
JG27…Lt Hoffmann and Uffz.Prein who both collided,and both died
as a result.
The 4+ZT could refer to ZG26 (ME110)…but would expect to
see an alpha code not numeric.
Cheers Mike