Spitfire Piece identity if possible

It would be foolish in the extreme to rely on uniformed opinions given on the forum with an offence of this potential severity.

Moggy

Fixed it for ya 😉

(says the guy with a German 88 round sat on the mantle…)

While opinions are of no value, the actual experiences of Forum members who may keep, transport and display de-activated guns could well be useful when talking to plod. That’s why I asked the question.

It would be foolish in the extreme to rely on uninformed opinions given on the forum with an offence of this potential severity.

There is only one source it makes any sense to rely on, and that is your local police firearms licencing unit.

Simple as that.

Moggy

I take it this offence is the one you are worried about?

Yes, although it’s not the potential for a fatal error of judgement by a member of Nottinghamshire’s Armed Response Team so much as the idea of sharing a cell with Ken Ward for five years!

😀 Sorry Ken, couldn’t resist!

I have a deactivated Browning. As far as I can see the top cover has not been tampered with/ altered in any way. The working parts have been removed and the breach welded up etc.

If that’s correct then surely you have nothing to fear.

Best to check though… Local police or maybe friendly gun shop.

Since people who have some idea about these things are reading this thread, I’ll ask my question here…

If I were to take my Frazer Nash Lancaster front turret to Cockpitfest in June, would there be any restrictions on installing and displaying the guns? They are de-activated with certs, etc.

I’d need to check whether it was covered under NAM’s firearms certificate!! 😉

Thats a difficult one what if the shop you buy your air rifle is in a public place?

Like a town centre shopping arcade.

A ‘deactivated firearm’ is classed as an ‘imitation firearm’

I take it this offence is the one you are worried about?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/19

Seems clear to me, You be the judge 😉

Since people who have some idea about these things are reading this thread, I’ll ask my question here…

If I were to take my Frazer Nash Lancaster front turret to Cockpitfest in June, would there be any restrictions on installing and displaying the guns? They are de-activated with certs, etc.

Ah! Now you are talking about a completely different realm – carrying and displaying a firearm in a public place – pretty sure it doesn’t matter if it is deactivated or not 🙁 IIRC I think a replica is OK even if “fireable” (blank firing) – as used for reenactment, but technically the real thing even if deactivated can cause problems.

I have been asked to do more displays in public libraries locally and have been tring to find out what would happen if I included a gun – as technically, it is a public place! I have yet to get a straight answer 🙁

Since people who have some idea about these things are reading this thread, I’ll ask my question here…

If I were to take my Frazer Nash Lancaster front turret to Cockpitfest in June, would there be any restrictions on installing and displaying the guns? They are de-activated with certs, etc.

And where on the component pictured above can the marks referred to below be found? I certainly can’t see any.

Moggy

will generally have been endorsed by a Proof House.

It doesn’t say compulsory!:D

I get your point Moggy.;)

And where on the component pictured above can the marks referred to below be found? I certainly can’t see any.

Deactivation work carried out in the UK since 1 July 1989, will generally have been endorsed by a Proof House. The weapon will be proof marked and issued with a deactivation certificate.

Moggy

Found this and a very nice site plenty to offer.

As copied from there site.:::
Deactivated weapons may be possessed without a firearm or shotgun certificate and may be displayed in the owner’s home without the need for a locked gun cabinet.

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/what-are-deactivated-guns-/info_5.html

You just have to read the articles about the rozzers evacuating everyone within 200 yards of a cop shop because someone walked in the door with a grenade to realize how bloody clueless the average flatfoot is when it comes to stuff like this…

Is there no equivalent of the BATF (Bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms) in the UK? Here the relevant illegal part is the receiver with the serial number on it, all other parts are just, well parts! with fully auto weapons you are not allowed the sear to be with the parts if it can be converted from semi auto to full auto. this apply’s to California anyway. My son once used a British L1A1 as his science project at junior high and we had to get a letter from BATF explaining the lack of a receiver made it a Non-gun!

Some parts of the law deal with deactivated by condition and say in sea, bent etc…as others have said, there are diffs between police areas

&

The problem is that there is little coordination between forces (UK is divided into dozens of county-based police forces)

And even then the firearms knowledge of individual officers is patchy in an largely unarmed policeforce.

So whilst we have people blithely saying “I wouldn’t worry because…” the fact is there is a mandatory sentence for serious firearms offences (5 years?) and English jurisprudence doesn’t recognise a defence of ” I know somebody who has had a couple of these top plates and selector arms for a few years and he hasn’t been arrested” or “Air rifles can kill people” (Twatting them hard with the butt is probably the most certain way) “.. so you can’t arrest me for this piece of a section 5 firearm despite the fact the guidance you are receiving says you can” I personally wouldn’t take that risk. Moggy

Despite all the legislation over recent time we are still in a state where no one seems to know what is legal and what is not and the rules are so vague that regional interpretation is still a problem – It doesn’t help that it is soon clear on reading the guidelines that whoever wrote them hasn’t got a clue when it comes to relic condition weapons – I noted in the latest incarnation reference to weapons with the barrels cut off, as needing special permission to be retained even when deactivated – obviously completely unaware that this was the very method used to “deactivate” many weapons (not shotguns!) long before the current rules came about – perhaps the writer had watched a few too many episode of the Sweeny!

Yes, a weapon can be deemed as no longer restricted by firearms legislation due to its condition – HOWEVER, this needs to be confirmed by someone qualified to state this – in writing! I have had this done in the past by the county police firearms inspector on several occasions, but now our local police force (i.e. covering the whole county) no longer have anyone qualified to inspect firearms due to recent cutbacks and are unlikely to have anyone in the future – they will not even come out to look at such finds. There is provision under the new legislation (2010 revision IIRC) for proof houses to inspect such relic condition weapons and proof mark them as being effectively deactivated without any work, or with only limited work being carried out – in fact, this is the direction the local police force advised me to follow with my most recent finds – However after correspondence with one of the major proof houses it became abundantly clear this is simply NOT going to happen – they will not take the responsibility and in today’s legal climate, I suppose I can see where they are coming from – but such is the state of many relic recovered weapons, they can simply not be deactivated according to the current regulations without destroying them.

As any weapons I recover are likely to be placed on public display, I obviously have a vested interest in staying the right side of the law at all times, but it becomes especially galling when viewing some of the current “battlefield archaeology” type forums and seeing relic condition weapons of all types being openly displayed and traded with little or no concern for such legislation, as there is the apparent belief that “no still moving parts” = legal deactivation – I would like to see where this is stated in the act!

Some parts of the law deal with deactivated by condition and say in sea, bent etc…as others have said, there are diffs between police areas

The problem is that there is little coordination between forces (UK is divided into dozens of county-based police forces)

And even then the firearms knowledge of individual officers is patchy in an largely unarmed policeforce.

So whilst we have people blithely saying “I wouldn’t worry because…” the fact is there is a mandatory sentence for serious firearms offences (5 years?) and English jurisprudence doesn’t recognise a defence of ” I know somebody who has had a couple of these top plates and selector arms for a few years and he hasn’t been arrested” or “Air rifles can kill people” (Twatting them hard with the butt is probably the most certain way) “.. so you can’t arrest me for this piece of a section 5 firearm despite the fact the guidance you are receiving says you can” I personally wouldn’t take that risk.

Moggy

Interesting..So Guns that are dug up as a part of aircraft archeology..do they have to be deactivated?,even bent `weapons` when recovered? or are they automatically confiscated?

Very interesting and thought provoking

I must reiterate, I am not the owner and have not seen the piece, only a photograph.
All comments have been passed on.

once again thank you

Chris