I was just reading the following article from the National Library of New Zealand’s Papers Past site, originally published in the Wellington, NZ, newspaper, the Evening Post, Volume CXXXII, Issue 148, 19 December 1941, Page 6:
DAYLIGHT RAID
BOMBING OF BREST
WARSHIP TARGETS
LONDON, December 18. A big air battle was fought out over northern France in daylight today when Royal Air Force bombers raided the German-occupied port of Brest for the third time in 48 hours. It was one of the biggest bomber and fighter attacks of the war, and was made in brilliant winter sunshine with remarkably good visibility.
The attack was carried out by a powerful force of Stirlings, Halifaxes, and Manchester bombers, strongly escorted by Spitfires and Hurricanes. Everything depended on perfect timing. The attack, which started exactly at 12.30 p.m., was to take not more than half an hour, with the Stirlings first, then the Halifaxes, and then the Manchesters.
In spite of opposition from German fighters and the most intense anti-aircraft fire, the attacks were pressed home. Heavy bombs burst on the dry docks in which the German cruisers Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and Prinz Eugen are lying. All are believed to have been hit.
Spitfires and Hurricanes covered the British bombers throughout the operations, and were engaged in many dogfights. A wing commander said that when they were about four miles away from Brest the sky was suddenly filled with shell bursts. He flew straight on, with the rest of his section following. He had never seen such formation flying under fire. The planes made an unbroken line.
He had just turned for home with the rest of his section! following when they saw four Messerschmitts ahead, but when the enemy saw the British aircraft they ran like hares. “They were not having anything to do with our Stirlings,” said the wing commander. When they were clear of the flak they hung round for a quarter of an hour and watched. They counted the Stirlings coming out and watched the Halifaxes and Manchesters going in. By the time the second Stirling arrived a fire was already burning in the dry dock, and they could see thick, black, oily smoke rising above the Gneisenau.
One of the Stirlings engaged was the MacRobertson Reply, to which Lady MacRobertson had contributed £25,000 in memory of her two sons, both of whom had been killed in action in the R.A.F.
At least eight enemy fighters were destroyed, four by British fighters and four by bombers which were being attacked.
The British losses were five bombers and one fighter.
The daylight attack followed raids on Brest on successive nights. The docks at Le Havre were also bombed last night.
Evidence of the weight of British air attacks on Le Havre comes from the Mayor. In an interview he reviewed what he called fifteen months of terrible bombing. The worst periods were from September to 1 November last year and from August to September this year. Nearly all the harbour installations were damaged as a result of British air raids.
What interestests me is the wing commander talks of the bombers’ formation, and the article states the aircraft made an unbroken line. How exactly did the RAF heavy bomber attack formations look? Were they flown as a stream of one behind the other like the night raids? Or were they a closer tightly packed defensive formation like the later USAAF bomber groups on daylight raids, and like the RAF fighters?
Does anyone have photos of an RAF daylight heavy bomber raid to show how they formated?
Also out of interest does anyone have more details on this particular raid? Are the kill and loss figures accurate? Who was the Wing Commander leading the Stirlings who was interviewed? Was the raid a success? Which squadrons were involed?
By: Paul - 26th August 2011 at 12:25
There is a good write up of this operation in Chris Blanchett’s excellent book “From Hell, Hull and Halifax”. Pages 64-68 describe the preparations and operation from No4 groups perspective. It also gives details of the ditching. The pilot W/C B V Robinson sounds quite a character, he even went back into the ditched Halifax to retrieve his pipe!
I would also recommend digging out a copy of F/Lt R.C.Rivaz’s book “Tail Gunner”. He was the rear gunner of Halifax V9978 A-apple and also recounts the ditching (His second)!
How these guys did what they did amazes me.
It sounds like after the bombing runs the large bomber formation broke up and they headed back in twos and three’s having running battles with the fighters swarming over them!
None of the descriptions have any of the Halifaxes having a crew of eight but is certainly wasn’t unusual for a second pilot to be aboard.
By: archieraf - 23rd August 2011 at 23:36
Creaking Door, from what I have read and seen in records for 35 Squadron in the late 1941 and early 1942 period the crew of the Halifax was 1st and 2nd Pilots, Navigator, 1st and 2nd Wireless Op/Air Gunners, Flight Engineer, Rear Gunner.
The 2nd Pilot (2nd Dickie) generally tended to be a newly qualified Pilot who was paired up with a more experienced Pilot for a few operations before being given his own crew. In effect, I suppose it was almost a final stage of training before taking command of an aircraft.
My grandfather was lost at the end of March 1942. Six crews failed to return from the op he was lost on, all were flying with 2nd Pilots. Almost immediately after this operation they stopped flying with two Pilots.
Regards
archieraf aka Linzee
By: Creaking Door - 23rd August 2011 at 13:03
My grandfather was one of the pilots flying a Halifax in 35 Squadron on the daylight raid 18th December 1941…
From reading a few sparse details about the raid and the ditching of a Halifax your link takes us to photographs taken during the actual bombing-run (including one Halifax with its wing bomb-cells open) and photographs of the actual ditching – just amazing!
It is also interesting the number of 35 Squadron aircraft that returned damaged from this raid; many aircraft returning with flak damage and engines shut-down. These are the sort of ‘losses’ overlooked when we read that ‘only one aircraft failed to return’.
I notice that the ‘Story of Halifax L9512’ on your website lists the crew as pilot and second-pilot, with no bomb-aimer listed for the (seven man) crew; that is very interesting given my assumptions in the post above (and the crewing of Bomber Command Halifaxes later in the war).
Thank you for posting! 🙂
By: Creaking Door - 23rd August 2011 at 12:33
My original thought for the eight-man Stirling crews was that, given this was a daylight operation, possibly a mid-under gunner was being carried but it seems that the FN64 turret was only ever (and then very rarely) fitted to the Lancaster.
Having checked other losses of Stirlings (and Halifaxes) in BCL for the same period eight-man crews seem fairly common. While some of these are probably ‘second dickies’ (or other ‘extra’ crew-members) I think the Stirling was originally designed to be flown by pilot and co-pilot but when this was done was a flight engineer carried too? In contrast the cockpits of the Lancaster and Halifax were clearly only ever designed for a single pilot.
I wonder if the 15 Squadron Stirlings lost on this operation were being operated with pilot and co-pilot?
By: kev35 - 22nd August 2011 at 10:23
hindenburg.
I know I’m being dense here so pardon my ignorance but what is a screen flight engineer?
Regards,
kev35
By: hindenburg - 22nd August 2011 at 08:14
We can only assume that the eighth crew member on the Stirlings were Second Dickies?….screen flight engineer.
By: Dave Homewood - 22nd August 2011 at 01:06
Thanks for that Linzee, great shots.
By: archieraf - 21st August 2011 at 22:17
My grandfather was one of the pilots flying a Halifax in 35 Squadron on the daylight raid 18th December 1941. There are a few photographs taken on that op including a few sketchy ones of the Halifax ditching on the return journey. on my website if you go to this page http://www.archieraf.co.uk/archie/raidonscharnhorstandgneisenau.html
Regards
archieraf aka Linzee
By: kev35 - 20th August 2011 at 22:54
We can only assume that the eighth crew member on the Stirlings were Second Dickies? Perhaps looking at the crew list in Chorley might confirm this after cross checking with CWGC.
Regards,
kev35
By: Creaking Door - 20th August 2011 at 14:31
According to BCL the ‘actual’ losses of aircraft and aircrew were as follows:
7 Squadron Stirling I N3680 – Shot down by fighters – Seven dead
7 Squadron Stirling I N6095 – Hit by flak and shot-up by fighters – Returned to base but damaged beyond repair – Two wounded
7 Squadron Stirling I W7436 – Shot down by fighters – Two dead / Five POW
15 Squadron Stirling I N3665 – Shot down by fighters – Eight dead
15 Squadron Stirling I W7428 – Shot down by fighters – Eight dead
35 Squadron Halifax II V9978 – Damaged by flak and ditched – Seven saved from the sea
97 Squadron Manchester I L7490 – Damaged by flak and crashed on return to base – Eight dead
97 Squadron Manchester I R5795 – Shot down into the sea by fighters – Three dead / Three POW
A disastrous raid by most standards. I don’t think too much can be read into the differing loss-rates of the different types of bomber on this occasion; probably different formations came under different levels of attack by fighters. The pathetically small numbers of crew that survived from shot-down bombers is unfortunately not remarkable by Bomber Command standards. It is interesting the number of shot-down bombers that carried eight crew members (and the Manchester that apparently only carried six).
By: kev35 - 20th August 2011 at 12:45
Pagen.
Those losses are well over 10% of the bomber force deployed. IIRC, Bomber Command could not survive sustained loss rates of above 6% or so. This raid took place in the period just before Harris took over and the massive expansion took place. I haven’t got the books here with me to be able to break down the losses but it would be interesting to know how many crew who were shot down survived.
Regards,
kev35
By: pagen01 - 20th August 2011 at 11:29
Interesting posts for someone who isn’t that much ‘in’ to that period.
The info seems to fly in the face of impressions of RAF daylight bombing that I have as the losses seem quite small, and it’s interesting to see how much of a part that the Manchester played.
By: Dave Homewood - 20th August 2011 at 07:45
Thanks.
By: jettisoning - 20th August 2011 at 07:14
Operation ‘Veracity I’
this operation is quite well documented :
german warships SCHARNHORST & GNEISENAU
RAF Bomber Command involvement :
18 Halifax a/c 4Group (largest Halifax force to date) – 1 FTR
18 Stirling a/c 3 Group – 4 FTR
11 Manchester a/c 5 Group – 1 FTR
These are actual losses – as opposed to crashes on return to UK
Accounts contain references to ‘vics’ of a/c
‘Bomber Squadron – Men Who Flew With XV’ MR Ford-Jones p50/52
“XV Sq (Wyton) detailed 9 Stirlings which took off just before 10.00 led by W/Cdr PB Ogilvie , the squadron CO . Once airborne they formed themselves into 3 vic formations and headed towards St Ives , near Wyton , where they were to rendezvous with nine 7 Sq a/c from Oakington .
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August 20, 2011 at 3:50 am