Thunder City ……

….That said, I am surprised that the MoD haven’t looked at the civvy warbird world and thought maybe there are enough Spits and Hurri’s to allow them to discharge their commemorative duties….

I wonder how much they would charge for a flypast ?

‘dont read too much into that advert. Although still active, It’s from feb 2010. Things have moved on since then.’
What?? So you’re telling me that the TV stations are running these commercials because they have nothing else to put out?

A decreasing RAF will have to look at what’s important. Supporting the campaigns we have at present is hard enough with what we have. The Red Arrows and BBMF will become bigger targets as the drawdown continues.

The BBMF provide fantastic value for money, a quick look at their flypast/display list shows this.
When the sad day comes when the last veteran passes away, surely thats when a memorial flights job becomes more important?
That said, I am surprised that the MoD haven’t looked at the civvy warbird world and thought maybe there are enough Spits and Hurri’s to allow them to discharge their commemorative duties, particularly if ‘Just Jane’ ever does make it back into the air.
I hope it never comes to that, the BBMF are the very epitome of professionalism in all their facets of operation and long may they continue.

Back on topic, the Thunder City jets could not have found themselves unemployed at a worse time.
Maybe F-111buff’s ‘mothballing’ solution is the best.

This afternoon ITV1 was showing an old Bond movie (Dr. No the first one, from 1962). In between, there were the usual commercial breaks. In EVERY commercial break between 3pm and 6pm was an recruitment ad urging viewers to inquire about “a career in the RAF”

Two questions

One, if the RAF is making hundreds (if not thousands) redundant, why are they running recruitment ads?

Two, with unemployment currently at 2.5 million, a possible “double dip” recession going on, the stock market collapsing, surely the best “recruiting sargeant” is unemployment (or the threat of it)?

If you join the forces, then there is (or was) guaranteed employment for at least three years; a good thing to have in these uncertain times!

OK, back on topic: if we’re talking about keeping “historic postwar/cold war jets” flying, then surely there has to be a place for the HARRIER?

After all, if you argue that that Battle of Britain could not have been won without the Spitfire, then the Falklands War could not have been won without the Harrier. Doesn’t that make it an “historic” aircraft worthy of a RAF Memorial Flight?

I’m really sorry to stay off topic briefly but, as you might expect, the Armed Forces HAVE to keep recruiting for a number of reasons, not least that they promote from within, they require more young people than old people and many personnel do not stay until 55 (like I did). If recruiting stops, as it did briefly in the 90s in some branches and trades, then you end up with a “black hole” of seniority and experience. The training machine also needs a constant supply of punters as, if it stops, experience tails off rapidly. The latest course to join initial officer training at Cranwell is less than 30 strong (normally 120) but some branches aren’t recruiting at all until 2012. However, the RAF needs over 2000 new faces this FY and next year it might need more. Another problem is that of disbanded trades like Painter & Finisher; the trade has gone but P&Fs are still serving without a trade structure. Very complex, morale testing, frustrating times for anyone in the Armed Forces, working with the Armed Forces (like me) or supplying the Armed Forces. However, given the fact that a country will always have an air force, either its own or an occupying one, then the future is bright (or maybe not!).
Back on topic, the Lightning for me would be a worthy RAF historic type for “official” use a la BBMF but it will not happen, there is no money.

How did we get from Thunder city to BBMF?? 😀

Anyway, with regard to what happens to BBMF in future I think it will be a case decided by public opinion rather than whether there are any veterans left. There was talk a few years back about cutting the Red Arrows, there was a media campaign and online petition and the idea was quietly shelved. Fingers crossed BBMF can be preserved as long as the public wish it to remain.

I have some sympathy with that view.
However, with the WW2 generation going, and the cost of living going up and life (for many) getting harder–at least for the forseeable, I can see the great British public having other worries.

We’ll see.
A.

dont read too much into that advert. Although still active, It’s from feb 2010. Things have moved on since then.

How did we get from Thunder city to BBMF?? 😀

Anyway, with regard to what happens to BBMF in future I think it will be a case decided by public opinion rather than whether there are any veterans left. There was talk a few years back about cutting the Red Arrows, there was a media campaign and online petition and the idea was quietly shelved. Fingers crossed BBMF can be preserved as long as the public wish it to remain.

Thunder City

So was I…until I got news of possible redundancy the other week! It sure is a cold world out here…:(

This afternoon ITV1 was showing an old Bond movie (Dr. No the first one, from 1962). In between, there were the usual commercial breaks. In EVERY commercial break between 3pm and 6pm was an recruitment ad urging viewers to inquire about “a career in the RAF”

Two questions

One, if the RAF is making hundreds (if not thousands) redundant, why are they running recruitment ads?

Two, with unemployment currently at 2.5 million, a possible “double dip” recession going on, the stock market collapsing, surely the best “recruiting sargeant” is unemployment (or the threat of it)?

If you join the forces, then there is (or was) guaranteed employment for at least three years; a good thing to have in these uncertain times!

OK, back on topic: if we’re talking about keeping “historic postwar/cold war jets” flying, then surely there has to be a place for the HARRIER?

After all, if you argue that that Battle of Britain could not have been won without the Spitfire, then the Falklands War could not have been won without the Harrier. Doesn’t that make it an “historic” aircraft worthy of a RAF Memorial Flight?

I think in the case of the BBMF I suspect when the last veterans of WWII are no longer with us the Flight will be looked at strongly and maybe the props will stop turning.

Getting back on topic I hope the airframes find good homes wether they remain flyable , ground running or static. Hopefully Stennis and the Brunty lads can get some much needed spares if possible!

ita a disgrace, a freind told me she wanted to stay in the RAF as long as possible, its all she has ever known. She got her notice within weeks.

That’s most regrettable; but there is much more to life than the RAF even though I enjoyed it. Interestingly, most of the “blue suits” where I work at the moment can’t seem to wait to leave! They should know on 1 Sep. The world has changed of course and the idea of anyone working for the same organisation for any length of time in the 21st Century is becoming much more of an alien concept, although a military organisation is different from your avarage job, but in my view the RAF in recent years became very “civvy” with its “businessbolloxspeak” and it’s had to work hard on the “ethos and culture” stuff. The Battle of Britain Dining in Nights for example, are a relatively new idea (post 1992 for certain).

disband the BBMF if history means so little…

That is a very strong possibility, indeed, as far as I’m aware, the BBMF is “looked at” during each annual financial planning round in the MOD. So far, it has survived – mainly because it is relatively cheap and provides tremendous advertising and is a magnificent historical education tool for the RAF. The RAFAT is, of course similar and is also scrutinised but, as it flies (not so modern) jets, appeals perhaps to future aircrew and ambivalent bystanders rather than ex-aircrew and historical afficionados some of which frequent this forum. Preservation of artifacts in working order is never cheap if they are no longer doing what the manufacturer originally built them to do.

Quite right – there is a case to civilianise the BBMF in the same way that the RNHF was.

disband the BBMF if history means so little…

Well if it came to choice between keeping the frontline Typhoon force in being and cutting stuff like the BBMF and Red Arrows, what do you think should be done..?

And I think the 55,000 men of Bomber Command who didn’t return and a couple of cold war jets might be viewed somewhat differently by the tax paying public–don’t you..?

I could think of a dozen heritage projects from WW2 that I’d like to see finished.
But ask me if I think tax payers money should be poured into them to help them–the answer is no.

I’ll give you a practical example.
My father is 88 years old. He fought overseas for five years for this country and served for somewhat longer.
He was also wounded in action and Mentioned in Despatches.
However, if he (or my Mother) needed to go in a home, the bungalow (the one he worked his guts out for) would have to be sold to pay for the care.
Now, in that sort of financial climate, do you honestly think spending millions on old aeroplanes is money wisely spent..? They and people like them (and there are many) might have something to say.

Andy

It has been suggested before but the BBMF costs peanuts in respect of the defence budget.

disband the BBMF if history means so little…

I see you live in Australia. Therefore as such, I assume you pay your taxes to the Australian Government.
I live in the UK.
Therefore, give me one good reason why my taxes should go to support old aeroplanes?
Especially as hospitals, schools, old people’s homes–in fact everything (including The Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force) are being cut to the bone–just to make the books balance..?

Andy

Why should the airforce? You could argue that all ex military aircraft need preservation by a military source. Which would cost millions.

BBMF aside, the airforce will never have the money. Especially with the current situation. Id rather my tax went on their main aim which is defence, aid etc.

You say plenty of people to donate, well the vulcan just about gets enough! And thats always pushing it.

the Vulcan, Lightning and Buccaneer were major contibutors during the Cold War…. and the money for the VTTS would still be there… without the wages for the hierachy, and perhaps more people donating in the knowlege it wont be going to waste…

So was I…until I got news of possible redundancy the other week! It sure is a cold world out here…:(

Indeed, I’m now an MOD Civil Servant (lecturer) so I ain’t exactly secure! However, there is nothing certain, except change! Back on thread, an airworthy Lightning in the UK would be on most aviation buffs’ wish list I would think. I remember an Air Cadet Summer Camp at Wattisham in 1974 when the F3s were still in that polished metal finish – awesome!