Do vintage warbird pilots wear parachutes?

Up to date answer to this thread – Yes

:)I have recently returned from a holiday in Florida where I took the opportunity to fly with Stallion51 at Kissimmee in “Crazy Horse 2”.

I had to wear a parachute and I was told how to use it in the event of an emergency.

Fortunately it was not needed and I have not yet got the grin off my face that flying for an hour in a Mustang gives you!

Looks like we’ve got two threads going here. The sawdust paratrooper story sounds just like a great piece of barrack room scuttlebutt or a training tale to keep the green recruit in line.

Also to AVI’s knowledgeable post, IIRC, all allied paratroops were launched via static line; not obviating the use of a reserve, but certainly making it even more pointless.

Reserves

I read the story of a ww2 paratrooper who during training would always deploy his reserve as well as his main chute. So they packed his reserve with sawdust. Didn’t do it after that!

I don’t believe Brit paratroopers, unlike their Canadian and American counterparts, used reserves until postwar, like around 1949. Canadians attached to the British 6th Airborne jumped without reserves in Normandy and the Rhine but not back home during training in Canada at Rivers, or in the US at Benning and in Helena, Montana with the 1st Special Service Force.

There would be the risk of main/reserve entanglement if the reserve were deployed under a full main canopy, just as there is with a malfunctioned one. Regular paratroopers/static line jumpers, unlike HALO jumpers or skydivers, do not jettison their malfunctioned main prior to deploying the reserve. The (postwar) Capewell releases were designed to allow the jumper to release one or both sets of risers/suspension lines in order to collapse a parachute in strong winds, thus preventing the jumper from being dragged on the ground. They were not meant to be used by jumpers to jettison a malfunctioned main. Granted, skydivers from the ’60s to ’70s used the Capewell releases for jettisoning malfunctioned mains, but that’s not what they were designed for.

It’s extremely difficult to maneuver a round main parachute with a fully deployed reserve interfering. There’s also more likelihood of injury upon landing as the jumper is suspended at an angle, no longer directly beneath the suspension lines of the main, so I’d venture to say that the related account of the jumper firing off his reserve on every jump is highly fictional.

AFAIK, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight single-engine fighter pilots wear them, along with helmets. Not sure if they do in the Chippie.

The RAAF Museum’s Mustang pilots wear a parachute when flying, and a life-vest (Point Cook’s by Port Philip Bay) and helmet.

These are warbird pilots who are following others’ set safety standards. Private owners have other choices and factors and don’t have to answer to others beyond the basic safety provisions required by law and insurance.

My impression is that in high-performance single engine types it’s sensible and advised to do so, multi-engine types its rare. Given that in most cases warbirds and vintage types operate and transit at levels marginal or too low for parachutes mean the chances of use are rare.

Aside from military warbird operators above, civilian and non-test pilots may not have the currency or training in the parachute’s best use to mean that a rare scenario where it is a ‘best option’ may not be recognised. That obviously no slight on their piloting, just an observation on the generally poor performance by most of us in using rare/one-time safety equipment.

Of recent cases, the only example I can think of is the tragic loss of a pilot in a Piston Provost due to a fire. I don’t know, but I doubt the pilot would have had time or height to get to an altitude to bail out, and also I suspect the most likely course would’ve been to try for a force landing anyway, as he in fact attempted.

If anyone can provide fact rather than speculation on the last point it would add to the discussion.

Regards,

So if he didn’t use his reserve, how did he find out it was full of sawdust?

I think that was the point. He did, during training and probably got the message not to keep doing it.

I forget the book I read this in. Band of Brothers by Stephen Ambrose ?

I did not have one when I flew with Anna Walker in the ARC Harvard “TAZ” – I never had the bottle to ask her if she had one:eek::eek::eek:

So if he didn’t use his reserve, how did he find out it was full of sawdust?

His main worked. He got the message. I guess when you are about to drop several thousand troops into Normandy with estimated 80% casualties it wasn’t much of a risk. The risk of him entangling the reserve with the main was greater. Besides they didn’t need their reserve as they dropped low (even though they carried it) at Normandy.

I read the story of a ww2 paratrooper who during training would always deploy his reserve as well as his main chute. So they packed his reserve with sawdust. Didn’t do it after that!

Surely had he required his emergency one that would have gone down as murder :confused:

I read the story of a ww2 paratrooper who during training would always deploy his reserve as well as his main chute. So they packed his reserve with sawdust. Didn’t do it after that!

What are the rules for bailing out?

Ie your happily flying across a populated area and the engine bursts into flames, do you look for a field point it that direction bail out hope for the best or take her in and chance your luck?

A read through the various incidents on the link I posted shows that although there are a lot of saves, the chute also introduces new problems:
– deployment by passenger
– Chute tangled with empannage
– Chute tangled with tower
– Chute opened outside design limits

While a safety net on one side, the fact that it is there will also be the cause of some incidents as people decide that they can just try a little bit more than they would normally do.

As for warbirds, it is a major modification, you would be operating outside the design parameters for the chute for most of the time and deployment will probably not leave the aircraft undamaged, which would be the main reason for installation.

Interestingly the list of deployments on that link does not include the event where a Cirrus was part of a large general aviation exhibition and an interested visitor decided to yank the large red handle. Cue annoyed firemen trying to figure out how to extract a large solid fuel rocket from a hangar roof.

SouthWest Airlines flight as parachute is stuffed into the overhead….

Little old lady in next seat asks “Whats that?”

Reply: “A parachute, didn’t they give you one?”

There was a BA flight half way across the pond and a passenger in first class died, after some discussion it was decided to put the stiff in one of the crew bunks down the back, but this meant carrying him through the cabin, so the co pilot and a Steward was elected to do so, a blanket was put over the corpse so as not to upset any passengers enroute, however when moving him through first class the Co pilot smiled and said to the bemused passengers.” Anyone else eat the fish?”

He was disciplined over it lol

My friends who own a variety of Stearmans and a T-6 don’t use them unless they’re doing aerobatics.
Also, not many owners of “antique” civil types seem to wear them either.

See posts 3 & 4 to see why wearing a parachute can work with a warbird.
As I said then it does rely on the aircraft still managing some control to allow for a decent escape, sadly a lot of warbird accident happen during a display routine which is naturally close to the ground and entails higher speeds and manoeuvring.

Easy enough to get out of a P51 backseat after the canopy has been jettisoned…

Ah, okay. Was 98 when I flew in one and it seemed quite restricted. Glad I didn’t have to!

What would be the purpose of wearing a parachute for a warbird display flight? I’ve seen pilots wearing them (Ray Hannah for example) and guess they would be for a manageable aircraft failure rather than a catastrophic incident

A structural failure or mid air collision could be a case where a parachute is of use but you would need to be fairly high to stand a reasonable chance of getting out. Also an engine fire…certainly a liquid cooled engine with the fuel tank in close proximity to the pilot will require a chute to be worn. In most cases though you’ve a better chance flying the aircraft to the ground under control. Not too many are killed if they fly the aircraft, the main danger is stall/ spin due distraction.

If flying solo I’ll wear a chute happily but as has ben stated here, it’s primary role is as a seat cushion which may be of use in exceptional circumstances. Flying with someone else though, I’ll take my chances without. Very unlikely that a passenger will get out even if I can…duty of care dictates that I treat their life as being as valuable as my own.

I’ve flown in various warbird and civilian aircraft (including gliders) and never been given a parachute. Either I wouldn’t be able to get out (P51 back seat with not enough room to bail out)

Easy enough to get out of a P51 backseat after the canopy has been jettisoned…

What would be the purpose of wearing a parachute for a warbird display flight? I’ve seen pilots wearing them (Ray Hannah for example) and guess they would be for a manageable aircraft failure rather than a catastrophic incident.

I’ve flown in various warbird and civilian aircraft (including gliders) and never been given a parachute. Either I wouldn’t be able to get out (P51 back seat with not enough room to bail out) or would have the ability to bail out. By the time I’d realised something was wrong and worked out what to do it would probably be too late.

I found it amusing being given ditching instructions for a helicopter pleasure flight over New York. Strapped into a harness in the back of a civilian Gazelle type helicopter I doubt I could get the harness off let alone get out!

Rescues completed
The first ballistic recovery parachutes were on the market in 1982, and the first deployment was in 1983. Between then and April 2007, over 225 people were aboard 201 aircraft which deployed BRS parachutes; most of whose lives were presumably saved by those parachute deployments.[3]

Thank you for that link it’s made a interesting read, any warbirds have this fitted and if not why not?

It increases the insurance premiums if you have one fitted. Basically down to people dropping the aircraft into remote areas instead of concentrating on actually flying it to the nearest airport…. Apparently insurance companies don’t like it when some pilot chap drops his expensive toy into the middle of a National Forest because the chip light flickered a bit…