What if Goering hadn't survived WW1 ?

I doubt his early demise would have made the slightest difference. The Ural/Amerika/Viermotor issue is ahistorical. Invaders don’t do area bombing of the assets they covet.

From 30/1/1933 the Nazi Party was in the position to assign resources to implement their objectives. Those included: restoring the Volk to their “rightful” status of, at least, equality with those that had imposed the “Unequal Treaties”; and securing food, oil and material denied by the unconvertibility of their currency (caused by a “Jewish bankers’ ramp”). So: respect/co-existence to the West, Drang nach Osten.

A re-run of 1917-March,1918 would do fine: Air as artillery and scout, supporting boots-on-ground pushing the Slav beyond the Volga. The Siegfried Line would absorb any feeble attempt by France to fuss; doughboy-mass would not recur; Tommy was contemptible and would settle for a sphere of influence deal – you wet, me dry. That would deliver prosperity-at-home. No need, no casus belli to take on Anglo-Saxon cousins to contest distant markets.

France ordered Consolidated LB-30, UK did the 1936 Heavies, at vast expense and to the detriment of Air Defence and the total neglect of Army Co-operation, because France/UK did not intend to Co-operate with their Armies’ boots trudging across wire and trench, again. This time the Bloody Paralysers would complete the job scarcely begun in Autumn,1918: to sever military supply and to render Society ungovernable, thus to collapse. Weapons of Mass Destruction visited upon the civilian population. That had been the British way of warfare since the first Naval bombardment of a hostile port, and Henry V had starved Harfleur.

The Prussian way was to ride in with sabre flailing. Stuka, under local air superiority. Goering did not invent that.

I hate to admit it, but my first thought when reading the thread title, was that there would have been a lot more room in Germany 🙂

My have stopped Operation Barbarossa from happening.

Great insights, thanks.

It´s not certain if there was personal friction between Milch and Messerschmitt, but the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (BFW) got the same development contract as the other companies, so it´s a moot point.

The 109 was the clear winner of the contest and even with its flaws outperformed the He112, mainly due to unexpectedly high drag from the Heinkel´s wings. The decision by the RAF to order the Spitfire helped make up their minds.

The 112, like the 118, has a certain amount of unjustified romance attached. The truth is it lost out to a better rival. That the 109 was kept in production is another story.

Wasnt Milch responsible for frustrating the early development of the Me-109 as well? (But then again, what if the He-100 reached operational status?)

Don´t forget Mr Milch.

The real power behind the throne was Erhardt Milch. He organised the Lw in its early years and was there when Goering was fighting the Communists and doing the dozen other jobs he had (i.e. police chief of Prussia).

Udet was a liability and the main root cause of the He177, Me210 and Bomber B fiascos. He let the industrialists have their flights of fancy and cost the Lw a generation of aircraft.

Milch was different: “When Milch pisses ice comes out.” Anything the German aircraft aircrat industry did afer Udet´s suicide was down to him. Whether he could have done it without Goering´s protection is doubtful. His father was Jewish.

It sounds like you know a lot more about him than me, but I thought he started out supporting and being very enthusiastic about the Luftwaffe and then grew to hate the Nazi ideal?
My thinking if that was the case, would see him as a very strong leader of the airforce in the time of its, the RLMs, and the aircraft factories huge expansion era and when the specifications were being issued for some very important types.
You would think that the Nazis would have wanted someone with the right drive and foresight to have been in charge, but they did make some strange choices.

Yes and no. Most of what I know is from Hans Herlin´s book: Udet-Der Flieger. (I do not know if published in English. Title would loosely translate as: Udet-The Aviator.) To make long things short: He was always and foremost pilot. Full stop. Everything else was secondary, at least that´s what is stated in the book. He desperately wanted to fly after WW I (the only profession he had), live a good life (planes, cars, drinks, women, …..) and don´t care about politics, but…. when he wanted to get the Curtiss Hawk (Biplane), he simply didn´t have the money (spent it as fast as he earned it, lol), and Goering (the Nazis) bought 2. And then he had to pay back, starting to “play” General in the RLM. No good for someone who loved to do aerobatics at airshows (even if he just earned enough to go on living), did serious filmstunts, bought an bancrupt airplane factory to produce the plane he wanted, but never was interested in big money, politics or being the top gun. And was really bad at all things financially, he simply wasn´t a deskman.

I would suspect Erhard Milch (formerly Lufthansa boss) would have gotten Goerings hat and seat. But who knows?

Michael

I do not think Udet would have been in Goerings place, due to several reasons:
a) Udet wasn´t a Nazi at all, he was neither fond of the Fuehrer nor the party
b) Udet wasn´t fond of an office job at all, he disliked “deskflying”, enjoyed aerobatics instead (he preferred a n y flying to an officejob)
c) Udet only got his job at the RLM because Goering pushed him there

It sounds like you know a lot more about him than me, but I thought he started out supporting and being very enthusiastic about the Luftwaffe and then grew to hate the Nazi ideal?
My thinking if that was the case, would see him as a very strong leader of the airforce in the time of its, the RLMs, and the aircraft factories huge expansion era and when the specifications were being issued for some very important types.
You would think that the Nazis would have wanted someone with the right drive and foresight to have been in charge, but they did make some strange choices.

A good book for this discussion is Mike Spick’s alternative history title: Luftwaffe Victorious. In it, he places the idea that Goering is baited by Goebbles to lead a bombing mission over the UK in 1940, and is shot down and killed.

I’m away from my copy at the moment, but I think i’m right in thinking that he put Kesselring until 1942 and then Frieherr von Richtofen in the top job, and as a result initiated a heavy bomber programme in the He 177 Grief.

All speculation, of course, and again, I am away from my copy, but worth a read just for a ‘what if?’ perspective.

Perhaps Oberst Walter Wever would have led the Luftwaffe.
If he hadn’t been killed in a 1936 crash, he would have pushed for a long range “Ural Bomber” that would have given the Germans much needed additional bombing capability.

That would have given the BoB and the war with the Soviets an additional dimension.

The man was as branded as ‘that fat fool’ by his own leader, so perhaps the Luftwaffe would have had a far better thinking person in charge, Udet perhaps?

I do not think Udet would have been in Goerings place, due to several reasons:
a) Udet wasn´t a Nazi at all, he was neither fond of the Fuehrer nor the party
b) Udet wasn´t fond of an office job at all, he disliked “deskflying”, enjoyed aerobatics instead (he preferred a n y flying to an officejob)
c) Udet only got his job at the RLM because Goering pushed him there

I believe there would have been a party member in Goerings place, maybe someone who was in the WW I airforce, but not necessarily so, an old partymember would have been preferred to an non-party aviator in any case.
By the way, AFAIK Goering was a member of the NSDAP prior than Hitler himself.

Michael

:D:D

What if my auntie had balls:confused::confused:

She’d be my uncle :eek::D:D

Without Goering would Hiltler have become Fuhrer?

If someone else had been in charge would they have supported the switch to fighter production ? Would the 262 have been available a lot sooner? Would sufficient fighters have been available to turn the tide in Normandy?

Lots of imponderables !!!

Ahh, the eternal question: ‘what if?’

What if Richtofen wasn’t killed in 1918, would he have been the architect of the new German Air Force?

That aside, if Udet had taken the job, he still would have insisted on the disasterous dive-bombing doctrine that affected the design of the Luftwaffe’s bombers, I think.

The man was as branded as ‘that fat fool’ by his own leader, so perhaps the Luftwaffe would have had a far better thinking person in charge, Udet perhaps?