Mosquito replica – Airborne!

Hats of to the French builders who created a nice looking airplane….
Its more a Mosquito look a like or an oversized model than a replica in my opinion.

Still a great achievement!

IBy all means keep on been critical to the efforts of the Frenchies – but how would you like to be them reading such a forum… rather unpleasant and may be damage any chance of ever seeing this fly in english skies.

Hmmm, I can just see it now:

“Oh no, I’ve dropped my croissant in ‘orror, zeese people say our machine eesn’t a Mosqueeto! Sacre bleu!” Hardly, Phil!

The ‘Frenchies’ probably have thicker skins than you may imagine. If I’d been the one to build such a replica, the joy of flying it would outweigh the criticisms. I don’t think I’d run off, sobbing for mummy, because some people said it wasn’t a real Mosquito.

Not everyone has a victim mentality, nor does everyone feel that disagreement or even criticism is a personal affront or harassment.

Good on those who build these machines.

Cheers,
Matt

Please note – my ‘scenario’ was deliberately superficial and satirical, to emphasise my reading of the superficial post to which I’m replying.

re;

A very nice aircraft in it’s own right but I don’t see the point.
Not to scale and not a Mossie.

probably the logisitics of getting permission from BAE are phenominal, besides the owners of real ones are not going to give them up.

While staying a bit further off topic, this little video might remind a few of how badly most people regard self appointed experts. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txp19ZNtFn8&feature=related

I can agree with much of what Seafuryfan has said.
For many years I worked full time in the model car trade selling 1/43 scale metal and resin kits. Many of our customers used to bring in their finished models to show us. I saw some superb models which had taken weeks or months to build and I saw others which were not that good BUT it was obvious from the way the finished article was presented to me that each and every one of these people took great pride in their work and was very proud of their finished model. I was never unkind but I did try to offer constructive criticism to those who asked for an opinion and in most cases I found that the builder was already aware of the problems which I pointed out and I was often able to suggest ways to improve the next model giving them a chance to acheive something just a little better the next time.
I also went on a trip with the Guild of Aviation Artists last year and was asked by one of their younger members, who I have known on and off for many years, to give an opinion on his unfinished picture of a P-40. I explained that I didn’t like to criticise as I have no talent at all for drawing and painting. He said that was irrelevant and asked for my opinion anyway so I explained that I thought the rear fuselage was a bit slim just in front of the tailplane. A wander across the museum confirmed my suspicions and he took the picture away to redraw that area. He was happy to have the chance to get it right and I was glad to give what he considered to be constructive criticism.
As others have said it is a matter of using a little tact and taking a balanced view which is something I always try to bear in mind when I post here.
Incidentally I forgot to mention in my previous post that I thought the pilot did a masterly job on the first landing of preventing a groundloop.

Part of community is about getting on together, and when a response is constructed it’s not a bad thing to be mindful of people’s sensibilities before the ‘Submit Reply’ button is clicked. I’m not saying we should censor our opinions, but the key is the way those opinions are articulated.

Absolutely, tact, in other words. It’s fine to criticise, but it should be done in a constructive and comradely way. Being a smart **** never impresses anyone.

Well said, Seafuryfan. The saying – think before you speak – well transposes to the modern electronic media. Perhaps the test should be – how would you feel if the post you’re about to submit related to you – and if there is an element of doubt, err on the side of caution and don’t hit the submit button. But maybe kindness and consideration are becoming things of the past? And for the avoidance of doubt, this is a general comment and not a specific attack on Mr Simons.

A friend of yours with limited resources invites a group of you round to his house to view the model train layout he’s just finished. It took him years, and he’s finally ready to run it in front of everyone. Some of the items on the board don’t look quite right, and to you, as a similar enthusiast, a lot of it looks plain wrong.

You have three choices. You can either, in front of his other mates (a ‘community’ of like-minded enthusiasts):

Be critical of how obviously wrong it looks, compared to ‘proper’ train layouts(with a comment or two on a good effort).
or
Give him credit for the enormous amount of work and dedication carried out
and perhaps offer constructive critisism and n how it could be improved (you could even offer to help).
or
Offer what laudible comments you can while perhaps pointing out it’s not your cup of tea.

We all fit in to different camps when we offer comments on say, a feat of workmanship, but because our personalities are so different (ranging from aspergers to ultra-sensitive types), our responses will be pitched in a different manner.

Part of community is about getting on together, and when a response is constructed it’s not a bad thing to be mindful of people’s sensibilities before the ‘Submit Reply’ button is clicked. I’m not saying we should censor our opinions, but the key is the way those opinions are articulated.

I’m a lurker here and generally enjoy the depth of knowledge that can be found. I love pedants just because I find it fascinating.

I just want to say that I am really impressed by Bomberboy’s post. It expresses my feelings very well. I’m really surprised by the comments from GrahamSimons, I hope it is only pride that’s responsible for the increasing depth of the hole!

I can’t speak for the builders but I could well imagine that their motivation was along the lines of those who have built Isacc’s Furies and Spitfires – inspiration from classic lines and a desire to create something. I very much doubt that they ever thought they were building a real Mosquito.

To the builders I say: chapeau bas, messieurs, et cieux bleus!

Hi
For a quick poll i just showed the video to wifey,as she can identy a lancaster from a spitfire..

what type of aircraft ?

… A Whirlwind..

… The logic ‘it is skinny and has two engines.’..

So I think as per my comment above, to the masses it will be a mosquito, and the project team have acheived their goals.

cheers
Jerry

Im rather taken back by the vocal harsh criticisms given on this forum by some people to the owners of the replicated Mossie.. it is really not appropiate for adults to carry on like this in the best of “british” traditions.

The french men have done something different and spent their – own time and money and hard work – on such a uniuque project.

Did any of you do anything to help the project? If so good – if not stop attacking their efforts.

I think if people want to be critical of others – they should first be in shoes of those who they wish to criticise so much.

Maybe they might learn given such harsh words is rather unhelpful and not needed.
It drags down humanity when all people do is damage what others share with others in the world.

Bottom line is …just be glad someone has constructed and flown a Mossie replica aircraft.

Anything else is really uncalled and really unbecoming of aviation enthusiats. It beginning to sound like kids in a fight.

I find on other aviation/online forums the same thing – people love to chop others down for no apparent reason.
It really is not humanity’s best point to be so critical of others – when majority have not been in the other’s shoes.

By all means keep on been critical to the efforts of the Frenchies – but how would you like to be them reading such a forum… rather unpleasant and may be damage any chance of ever seeing this fly in english skies.

Treat others how you would like them to treat you.. remeber that… i do.

Regards

Phil

Hi
Yep a great effort, and to anyone who is not an aviation enthusiast,
( maybe about 90% of the population) it will look like a mosquito, considering many airshow attendees can’t distinguish between a spitfire and a hurricane.:D
I once stood at an airshow and heard next to me ‘look the spitfire is coming’ it suprised me as the a/c had four engines and looked like the lancaster to me.:confused::rolleyes:
well done and good luck to those on the project.
cheers
Jerry

Saw the last video of this machine as it was being built and couldn’t wait to see one of it fly.
Now i have i am still extremly impressed at what these good folk have done.
It is an amazing Mosquito replica,but i don’t like the canopy [oops i said it but i don’t care].
I would love to see this in the flesh [wood] and would happily shake the hands of all those involved for producing the nearest thing to a flying Mosquito i am likely to see in the foreseable future.
I have seen a flying Mosquito and would love to see one again [do you hear Jerry!] but this will satisfie me for now, even with that damm canopy!!.

Graham,
Sometimes, just sometimes, one needs to take a step back and have another look at what one writes.

Ahhh! Tis good to see that good old-fashioned mob rule still thrives here! Anyone who expresses an individual thought that is different to the clique gets set upon by a pack of rabid dogs, spewing forth vitriol

I am not, nor never will be a part of any mob or pack and absolutely agree with individuality where it is required, so please don’t generalise just because it does not suit you or your views personally.

If anyone cared to actually ‘read wot I wrote’ (to paraphrase the late Ernie Wise) they would clearly see I never said it was not a good achievement or that the aircraft designers and builders did not deserve credit for their efforts.

If I might be permitted to offer you a tip here, I think that if you had given due credit for the acheivement (irrsepective of your view of the finished product), people would not have been so critical.
The fact is, even in your lengthy defensive answer(s), (which I have read), I still surprisingly do not see your actual personal recognition of the groups actual achievement!

Please tell me what part of “That is not, nor ever WILL be a Mosquito – Bishop and Geoffrey de H must be spinning in their graves!” leaves anybody with the impression that you were merely being ‘tongue-in-cheek sarcasm’?
I may not be a ‘prestigious’ writer or the most educated of individuals, but that simple statement, written in the way you had done, and along with the previous paragraphs observation and your further comment “then I will certainly not apologise!!”, left me in no doubt that there was actually nothing ‘tongue-in-cheek’ about your comment in the first place.
Surely as a writer allied with the research you state you have done on original Mosquito aircraft, you would find it easier than the rest of us, to get your considered comments accross clearly?
So I read ‘clearly’ that you had nothing good to say about this particular project or the people behind it et-al and so far offer nothing to change it either.

For the record, I feel the same about any aviation replica, facsimile, sub-scale or whatever. I’m sorry guys, but to my eyes they just do not look right when compared to the original…….blah, blah, blah……. you name it, most replica’s suffer from that in one way shape or form. Proportion and ‘finess of design’ goes out the window and it offends my sensibilities!

So what are your views on the Buchons (either with DB’s or Merlins), converted T-6’s into Zeros etc or the MB-5, P-38 or Yak-3’s to name but a few then?
With your comments above, I have to conclude it as an ‘absolute’ that unless it is an ‘original’ you care not for it?
What a great shame!!!!!
But then this does ask what constitutes an original to you?
What percentage of an aircraft has to be original to you before you will no longer accept it as an original, taking into account that there is unlikely to be many ‘original’ aircraft (as per from their actual build) still with us?

It is – to me – just mutton dressed as lamb! I just cannot see how that can ‘be honouring the original design’ or how it can be a ‘tribute’.

Don’t you mean Lamb dressed as Mutton?
The tribute is that fact that only certain aircraft are chosen over many, many types that are no longer extant, even though some are built with flying original examples ‘a plenty’ in some cases!

I remember a few years back someone was offering Ferrari Testarossa kit-cars that could be – and I quote – ‘…powered by a 1800cc four cylinder Ford engine’ I dread to think what Enzo was up to over that!

That is different to building your own designed and made Enzo replica which would be in the same vein that is the topic of this thread with engine selection being the most practical and affordable to the builder.
So what if an Enzo replica has an 1800cc engine?
On the other hand, have you ever seen an AC Cobra or GT40 replica with anything other than a honking great V8 fitted?
I havent, but thats not to say they don’t exist, but in general no-one chastises these replicas, except real Cobra & GT 40 owners and perhaps other replica owners wanting to feel good about their own steeds. The general public on the other hand, would not necessarily know the difference and in most cases wouldn’t care either, but they like the look of them regardless.

I was expressing my opinion, my views – I refuse to go along with the pack, not feeling that way – if I’m an ‘ignorant minority’, then so be it… but at least I can and am prepared to think for myself, and am not afraid to express my views in a calm and considered manner!

Nobody says you have to agree with everyone else either some or all of the time, but what people do not like to see (including me) is when something is not deserving of, but recieves from some, nothing other than dismissive and disparaging comments which are not necessarily justified and with no actual acknowlegement of hard effort and achievement, in the same way I acknowledge your involvement in keeping some lovely old birds up to scratch at OW.
Alas I will guess that there will not be too many on here that do that?

Bomberboy (pseudonym used…….absolutely and all of the time)

Well done mes Amis. To take on such a complex multi-engine design is a real achievement… and it actually flies too. I am so looking forward to seeing it and I’ll bet it’s very photogenic in the air with spinners, retracted gear and big propeller discs.

Would I fly in it? Probably not unless it was Nigel Lamb, Brian Lecomber or Mark Jeffries working the controls! 😉

However, to class my views as being those of an ‘ignorant minority’ especially when it is painfully clear that many have not even read the content and context of my posts – and then have others jump on the topic in a manner that suggests I am not even entitled to my opinions, I find completely unhelpful to sensible, sane debate.

While your on the subject of reading members posts then Graham, you’ll note that at no point did your name get mentioned in my first post here. Its you and others that are taking my general comment to heart about the ridiculous negativity for this project being shown here by a minority. Rather like your “mob rule” and “spewing forth vitriol “comments as they too may offend more here than you planned. As for being a member of a clique, that’s news to me 😉

I have nothing but admiration for your work in the field of aviation, whether it be in the written form or in restoration matters at Old Warden. However, in respect to this project, in my opinion your comments are wrong and suitable credit should be given to these guys for what they have achieved. I’m sure that if Geoffrey de Havilland were alive today, he’d be the first to congratulate these guys, not deride their efforts…

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

A really nice job,inaccuracies yes,but you have to look twice………

it appears to me that the more complex the aircraft being replicated, the more critical the end result is viewed.
There is no question that replicating a Mosquito is a massive task, just looking at the time and money that Av specs has gone through to recreate a Mosquito for Jerry Yagen is evidence of that.
(yes it has the identity of an original, but it is essentially new)
But as a homebuilt which is obviously based on, and somewhat resembles a Mosquito, this is an ambitious acheivement. The fact they persevered and have flown it, is excellent, and they should be very proud as a group. Well done.
I agree that it looks to have some initial flight issues, it may be a bit underpowered, it also looks to be a little tail heavy, and I am concerned that it`s single engine performance might be pretty marginal, but these are no doubt items which can be worked on, and regardless, its a neat project.

But why do we not hear the same comments about the many many WW1 flying aircraft? they are mostly all replicas, as originals are pretty far and few.
What about the many Golden Age racers flying? not too many originals there either, but do they get the same comments? “that Gee Bee looks wrong” etc.
Replica Antiques? there are plenty, but again they do not seem to be judged to the same level as say a Mosquito, or FW 190.

Bottom line, I think unless you can show that the replica you have built is a closer approximation to the original than this one is, then to be overly critical of their end result is pretty arrogant.

Good on them for getting their backsides and creating them.Love full scale warbirds but also know the effort in creating a scale replica from scratch.Designing the plane,marking out sheet,cutting,drilling,deburring,folding,shaping aircraft sheetmetal is an artform no matter what the size..
what would you say to Terry Kronk about his 80% Fw190 as it is all 100% home designed and built.
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/warbirds-warbird-replicas/625-focke-wulf-190-80-scale.html

You only have to pop along to Old Warden to watch the Shuttleworth Trust SE5a fly, its a full size original.

Thanks Richard,

Yes I have been to OW about 3 times now. But my first sight of a Se5a was a replica. And only many years after that was I able to see the OW example. I consider myself very lucky to have seen both.

As you mentioned being in Scotland isnt very handy for popping into OW but its only 5 and a half hours away should I wish to visit.