How heavy is your trailer

yes your on the right track, one thing that you may also want to confirm is if the cockpit is personally owned you or belongs to an ‘entity’…

so if its your own cockpit, your own vehicle and your licence is correct and the weights are ok then you should have no issues….

however if its somebody else’s tow car or trailer, or cockpit then regardless of licences or weights you have a different rules. If for instance the cockpit is owned by an aviation group (registered charity or business status) then you cannot claim its personal use, you also need to be aware that the insurance for towing use (private policies wont cover commercial towing use) has to specifically cover ‘hire and reward’ too, some private use policies wont cover you for commercial use either!

The problems started when manufactures started tip over the established 3495kg max vehicle weight with all the big SUV, 4×4 and small vans. Under EEC law these are in reality LGV’s by weigh although the use can still be personal, to add insult to injury the automotive manufactures have walked away from the responsibility of making these vehicles legally compliant, for a large proportion you can not get a tacho for them!

If your in doubt when stopped…
be sure you have the correct licence category
be sure your tow vehicle has the correct towing capacity
be sure your trailer is not overloaded
be sure you are moving a personal item (with equipment you own if possible)
be sure your insurance covers trailer use

if your tow vehicle is a company car be prepared to demonstrate that there is no business use (especially if your 50kms or more from the registered keepers address)… especially if your using a van!

Lastly VOSA excepts this has become a minefield and from the people I have spoken with the inspectors are not looking to catch people out just catch those trying to get round the law!… even VOSA gets it wrong and were in court a while back for using an illegal trailer for transporting a seized vehicle to their storage compound :D:D:D:D

Ah right, I knew there were extra categories for passing your test after , and I do get that if you are professional driver there are various restrictions etc.

I would think that people here are interested from the point of view of pulling cockpits around of say 750-3000kg and not for any hire or reward, so cutting to the chase that is fine as long as you’re not exceeding legal and vehicle weight limits?

Yes and you do not get ANY FORM of reward for doing so be it a simple as a certificate or a trophy as again you are under this daft interpretation of a REWARD and therefore it is no longer private BUT Commercial.

SO; Dont accepte any certificates or trophies,dont let your mate buy you a burger and a brew on the way down for giving him a lift and dont promise to collect Freds cockpit whilst you are down there as a favour so he will do the same for you some day. If you do and you get stopped at a checkpoint smile nicely and hope whoever stops you is in the mood to listen.

Or have I misunderstood it again ???:diablo::diablo::diablo:

This is a really interesting and relevant topic. Perhaps someone with a Trailer hire company could provide a point of view.

Quote from David Burke
-in the case of a vehicle being used to go to an event it should fall outside of that
if the driver isnt doing it commercially…….

It has been held that if you travel to an event where you may receive prizes or if you are sponsored in any way, then it can be classified as commercial use i.e. for gain. Many amatuer motorsport participants are now having to take account of this.

Rod

This regulation change isnt new ! I was dealing with its implications circa 2004 for a company. Some of the change was due to a well known rail accident that involved a driver having little sleep and ending up on a main line. The use of a tachograph enables a drivers rest to be calculated -in the case of a vehicle being used to go to an event it should fall outside of that
if the driver isnt doing it commercially or is using a tachograph for the rest of his week i.e is a driver by trade.

Firebex, it can’t be quite as simple a rule as you are stating, well if it is I look forward to a summers motoring with less than half the amount of caravans on the road than we normally encounter!:)
I’ve read quite a bit about towing recently, both from a private and work point of view, I would say MP is about right.

Bex, apologies for the thread drift….

Intelligence is not a criteria for being a traffic policeman!

You know, I take offence to this. Aside from the fact that both my father and my mother were traffic police officers for 10+ years during their careers. I have not met a single a4sehole traffic police officer or any other type of police officer for that fact.

Upon what grounds/experience do you make that sweeping generalisation?

In my experience, people that slate the police are generally people who are bitter about being caught doing something they shouldnt be….

The complete lack of respect for the police in this country never ceases to amaze me to be honest we do an impossible job, with totally unrealistic figures to meet, dealing with some of the most unpleasant people in the country to deal with, on the whole unarmed and spread about as thin as clingfilm over area.

Gets my back right up 😡

It is not a legal requirement that the trailer should have a mass of less than the towing vehicle, but it is good advice. The towing limit on most, if not all passenger cars is less than the unladen weight of the car itself in my experience. But Land Rovers etc can quite legally tow a 3500kg trailer regardless of the loaded weight of the vehicle at the time.

If you are a private individual who has hired a trailer then you won`t need a tachograph.

If the goods don`t belong to you then I suppose it would depend on what they are and why you are carrying them. For example, if you hire a trailer and use your private vehicle to help a friend move house then you clearly don`t need a tachograph. These regulations are specifically aimed at businesses / company vehicles. I understand that there could be situations which are unclear because laws are complicated!

Pete

Yes Pete I would go along with you there but its more than one person who has had trouble recently.It seems they are being very strict on their interpretation.

Ie because a vehicle can tow 3,500kgs it does not mean its legal to do so if the trailer or the goods on it are not your personaly then they are saying you need to have a Tacho in the towing vehicle. Also that the loaded trailer must NOT exceed the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it.

for example you put your cockpit on a trailer and the whole things come to 3,000 kgs. Great you think my Landrover is allowed to tow 3,500kgs !!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!. Your Landrover UNLADEN does not weigh 3,500kgs we thought this for some time we have been towing stuff on a voluntary basis but apparantly as its being interpreted as the item on the trailer does not belong to us or we have hired the trailer for the purpose of transporting the item even though we are in receipt of no payment for it we can be viewed as transporting a commercial load and hence need a Tachograph and still be classed as Light Goods. This is some of the confusion the ministry advised we are ok with them but not it seems with the police as they view the rules differently or so it seems.

Its like driving lecense renewals guys if you have just renewed or gone onto a photo card type license CHECK IT CAREFULLY the usual its the computers fault !!!! has been reported as removing categories and allowances off licenses and instead of being able to tow large trailers and big vehicles you may find your license suddenly says you cant tow more than 750 kg.

With the police and Vosa apparantly viewing the regs in different ways we could be in for an interesting season during 2011

He was told when he rang the ministry that he was ok with their rules but that the police may interperet it differently

Did they tell him that on April 1st?!

Any vehicle with a gross train weight (vehicle and trailer) over 3500kg and used commercialy requires a tachograph.
The reason the legislation has changed is that until recently there were not any passenger cars with a GTW over 3500kg, but nowadays there are various cars, SUVs and pickups which are, so as you say, the regulations have been tightened up.

The 750kg limit on trailers is those which are unbraked, it doesn`t have any bearing on current legislation, for example you could still need a tachograph if you tow a 500kg trailer with a van over 3000kg.
On the other hand, you can legally tow a trailer over 750kg commercially without a tacho if the plated GTW of the towing vehicle is under 3500kg, say with a smaller type of van.

If you borrow a commercial vehicle over 3500kg to move an exhibit to cockpit-fest, and it is not fitted with a tachograph, I don`t know whether you could be prosecuted or not, personally I doubt it as you would not be required to use one in that situation. Your friend is in a different position as he already uses the vehicle in connection with his work anyway.

Pete