Help to identify aircraft type

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to provide such great information.

N97– yes but not N92–

John

the third digit/second number looks like the bottom of a “2” and not a “7”

Roger Smith

Could serial on underside of Anson in second shot be N92??

Does that fit in any Anson serial runs?

Roger Smith.

N97– yes but not N92–

John

I suspect that if it was the CO who was flying the Hurricane with only four hours on type he just forgot to lower the wheels. The story about the stall was just his attempt at trying to retain his credibility with the other pilots.
Previously his flying would have probably been on fixed gear types, so a gear up landing was very easily done.
Did Hurricanes have any sort of undercarriage warning horn?

Richard

A stall is simply caused by the wing having too much angle of attack . It can be caused by trying to fly too slow , as would have been the case here , but can also be caused by miss useing the elevator control ( hauling the stick back really hard – known as a high speed stall ) . Sometimes pilots will induce a second stall , by pulling back too hard on the stick when recovering from a previous stall . So its not just about air speed ( but in most cases thats where people go wrong )

Forgive my ignorance but if a “stall” was the cause – where did all that forward energy come from?

It seems quite evident in the last Photo that the Hurri was landed with full flaps and no gear down, sliding to a halt on the oil cooler fairing.

A stall, unless from a very great height, would produce a “much deeper” and shorter event marking.

Just my opinion…

“Stall” does not mean either a total loss of forward airspeed or a “vertical descent”… just that the forward airspeed was less than that required for continued aerodynamic flight.

With the plane in a level position, all that is required for a “stall” is for the pilot to chop the throttles when the plane is just above stall speed, and the speed would drop below the critical point.

The plane would then begin to drop… and since in a landing attempt the aircraft isn’t very far up, it wouldn’t have time for a nose-drop, a tail-slide, or to fall off onto a wingtip before the fuselage impacted the ground.

Since there is still forward airspeed, the plane slid forward.

As noted by hurri600, the pilot also failed to lower the undercarriage… two mistakes on the same landing attempt.

This information was taken from a transcript of the accident form, however you are quite correct the one piece of vital information i neglected to mention is that it stated that the pilot failed to lower the Undercarriage, faulty procedure, Pilot to blame for accident.

Iain

Forgive my ignorance but if a “stall” was the cause – where did all that forward energy come from?

It seems quite evident in the last Photo that the Hurri was landed with full flaps and no gear down, sliding to a halt on the oil cooler fairing.

A stall, unless from a very great height, would produce a “much deeper” and shorter event marking.

Just my opinion…

Ian thank you for the info on the accident – perhaps because the CO had the accident is why my Dad had a print.

Again many thanks to everyone.

Hurricane L1869

According to the Accident card.
The Aircraft was being flown by the CO of 501 Squadron Squadron Leader M.V.M.Clube on the 26th of March 1939.

He was involved in practice Circuits & Landings at Filton
(501 sqds Home Base) when he held off to high on landing and Stalled, Crashing on the Aerodrome with the Undercarriage retracted.

The Accident record also notes that he only had 4 hours flying time on Hurricanes at the time.

Hope this is of interest.

Iain

Could serial on underside of Anson in second shot be N92??

Does that fit in any Anson serial runs?

Roger Smith.

Probably a case of the early days of retracts. “Oh dear I forgot”. All too common.

John

It can be difficult to tell from photos, but I would be inclined to agree with your thoughts, the undercarriage and wheels appear clean and undamaged, and more of a give away, so do the U/C door/fairings.

Found another view of the Hurricane – no evidence the undercarriage was down in this one

Again going back to his photos – his notation is that the Hurricane wreck was the result of the pilot not lowering the undercarriage – in looking at the front on view the undercarriage appears in good shape and thus would appear to be at odds with the account of a stall during landing.

What do you think?

With all the discussion around the Anson I went back to my Dad’s photo collection and came up with this alternate view of it – perhaps it will help.

And possibly just behind the upper cockpit glazing and diagonally down across the tail, but not apparent enough for me to put money on!

I cannot find it, but somewhere I have another shot of what I am sure is the same Anson captioned to the reverse “My little episode at Hawkinge” – though I am by no means certain the background in the shot in this thread is Hawkinge.

Hi

Yes I think you might be right. I can “just” disern a yellow ring and perhaps a demarcation on the nose. But could still be one of Yatesbury’s.

John

Btw can anyone suggest a pilot for the 26 march 1929 Hurricane accident for 501 sqn thanks Paul