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I believe also – if you had radio failure then you could overfly ATC tapping ‘R’ on one of the downward idents !

Hi Tim, the morse id lights fitted to WWII era and post-war period worked basicaly as Baz says, there was a colour of the day, and then a code (morse flashes) of the day. Some aircraft had three different selectable coloured lights in an underside panel, others had one light with easily swapped over colour lenses. There was a smaller upward facing id light aswel, lower or upper lights were selected on the switch unit.
The key part of your device appears pretty standard, and was sometimes part of a ‘switchbox identification’ as fitted to fighters etc.
I dare say Graham Adlam has complete Spitfire or WWII versions to look at.
I know little about the system but assuming it was to do with radio silence and basic IFF reasons.

Thank you Sir Ministry!

I think you’ve nailed it – it does indeed to be a small worthless part of an equally worthless bigger part!

Thanks to all who’ve had a bash at helping, it’s all very much appreciated!

It’s not a Lancaster item, but that’s what they are usually described as on eBay, hence the :rolleyes:

They were a Naval requirement and you’ll see them in the cockpits of Fireflys, Barracudas, late war/postwar, etc.

The complete units still turn up from time to time, usually in mint condition.

Worthless for what they really are, hence they appear on ebay as “Lancaster”, “Wellington”, etc.

You can’t even break them up for spares as the switches tend to break as you try to remove them. I know, I’ve tried, often!

It’s not a Lancaster item, but that’s what they are usually described as on eBay, hence the :rolleyes:

They were a Naval requirement and you’ll see them in the cockpits of Fireflys, Barracudas, late war/postwar, etc.

The complete units still turn up from time to time, usually in mint condition.

Worthless for what they really are, hence they appear on ebay as “Lancaster”, “Wellington”, etc.

You can’t even break them up for spares as the switches tend to break as you try to remove them. I know, I’ve tried, often!

Too big for an uplock microswitch.

Ident light is my guess. Unless you know of a type where the morse key was mounted in the control panel and not bench mounted.

JP downward ident light was a simple switch, so this thing is pre-1950s.

edit: try this for an idea, half way down the page: British RAF identification light key.

http://artifaxbooks.com/fsforeignmilkeys.htm

edit 2…. nevermind. just spotted the twin switches on the lanc box.

From the Prune thread about ‘Resin’ lamps

Well, my old Varsity and Hastings Pilots Notes confirm that both were fitted with resin lights, and Identification Lights. I mention the latter merely to confess that I had no idea of their use either, other than that implicit in their title. The Varsity Notes merely mention where the RL light switch is. The Hastings Notes are more forthcoming; “The three resin lights in each wing tip are controlled by an on/off master switch and a GREEN-CLEAR-RED selector switch.”. BTW the Downward ID Lights para says; ” The three downward identification lights in the fuselage nose are controlled by a switch on the coaming panel. Red, green or amber can be selected and, by pushing up the small lever on the morsing switchbox, the selected lamp can be used for morsing”. It infers that the “colour of the day” and the associated code word could thus be displayed, but such techniques were long abandoned by my time (>1962) together with whatever one used to do with resin lights. Regarding the name, many components were then known by the manufacturers tradename (ie Graviner switches, Decca navigator, etc), though I’ve never heard of such a company as “Resin”.
PS Have just dug out my old AP129 vol2. Under Night Formation it reads; “If dim/bright navigation lights are fitted, the dim setting should be used but,when available, resin lights are much better”. So that appears to define their use and their properties, ie they were very dim and thus did not dazzle when in formation at night. It

‘Morsing switchbox’ may refer Timbo

Lancaster switchbox, mint. As fitted to Guy Gibson’s Lancaster for controlling the famous spotlights he invented while perving at a leggy babe at The Windmill.
Shortly to be auctioned on eBay for a silly asking price. :rolleyes:

It’s always good to dig the Vol 1’s out anyway, if only for the smell!

You SAD SAD SAD man LOL

When I am having some trade banter with one of our greenies/D effer etc he always finishes off with ”Up yours Rigger” which i think is quite clever for a semi skilled :D…with apologies to Mel Brooks of course 😀

Just thinking if radio fit would it appear in PNs or parts APs?

Indeedy radio fit is included in the Vol 1B’s but I couldn’t see anything other than the usual U/VHF control units and such like. It’s always good to dig the Vol 1’s out anyway, if only for the smell!

No help at all :p but brings back happy memories of working on good old ‘866 whilst on 39 (1 PRU) Sqn, a mighty fine jet if ever there was one until the abrupt and tragic end.

Great anecdote though Baz, I bloomin’ loves it! 😀

Again just guessing, but I thought handed to which ever side of cockpit or unit fitted, downward or side to side mode being selected through a different switch.
I also assumed that when the downward id lights system was fitted that there wasn’t other id lights, ie like the wingtip etc fitted on later aircraft.
Just thinking if radio fit would it appear in PNs or parts APs?

Of absolutely no help to Timbo but a rather nice pic of T4 WJ866 on finals.
I believe this was 360 sqns T4 while I was at Cotty,on late shift one night we were putting our old girls to bed when 360’s Tbird landed and taxied clear … closely followed by a muffled ‘bang’ during the after landing checks – closely followed by engine shut down…we were the first there as the crew jumped out of the smoking and/or dusty cockpit – we could see that the Navs hatch had been ‘blown’ ( explosive bolts = crumpled Hatch LOL) .
I asked the pilot what happened and he pointed toward the Nav (RN Observer I believe) and said ”pressed the wrong feckin switch”…not that unusual it has to be said

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK—Air/English-Electric-Canberra/0787838/L/&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=3&sok=keyword_%28%5C%27%2B%5C%22wj866%5C%22%5C%27_IN_BOOLEAN_MODE%29%29_AND_%28type_%3D_%5C%272%5C%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=0807903&next_id=0726965

The Canberra B2/T4 still had the downward ident light but sorry cannot remember if it was key operated,possibly by the nav ??

cheers baz

Can’t find any reference in my 1954 T4 Pilots Notes or Vol 1’s and nothing in the B2 PN’s or Vol 1’s either.

ID lamps seems a favourite, though it seems that because I have a pair and they are handed then it would have to be Port and Starboard rather than downward or is that that just me being far too riggerish and simplistic?

The Canberra B2/T4 still had the downward ident light but sorry cannot remember if it was key operated,possibly by the nav ??

cheers baz

Hoping you would get that!:)
I know I was looking at PNs for something early jet fighter (Meteor maybe) and saw a morse key highlighted for flashing the downward facing changeable coloured id lights, I was surprised the system was still utilised after the war. The pressy bit looked similar to what you show.
I really don’t know but would radios have still had morse facility post-war?

The large piston types such as Shacks had a more meaty affair than these.

I would have said undercarriage microswitch.

Jon

Hadn’t considered that Jon..again it doesn’t resemble anything undercarriagey I have dealt with, but as mentioned above I am somewhat stuck in the Postwar jet frame of mind so may be missing the boat..

I would have said post-war morse keys for ident lights etc, a stab in the dark and not particularly helpful like most of my internal light switch use guesses!;)

hehehe I’m saying nothing!

Being an AVTUR drinker I’m not very spammed on the type of aircraft that might utilise such a device so are we talking big piston do you think?

I would have said undercarriage microswitch.

Jon

I would have said post-war morse keys for ident lights etc, a stab in the dark and not particularly helpful like most of my internal light switch use guesses!;)