I`m doing some research into a Horsa that crashed locally and is listed as being the cause of the first casualties of Arnhem. I`ve met a chap who as a boy saw the whole thing happen . He told me there was a `pop` and a puff of smoke and the the whole tail came off the glider in a neat line as if it was meant to.Did any of the gliders have some sort of charge to get the tail off quickly when the Glider had landed? He seems quite sure that it wasn`t an explosion caused by munitions on the glider.
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th October 2010 at 10:07
A flying helmet belonging to one of the glider pilots in the glider and found after the crash turned up on eBay not so long ago. 🙁
By: hindenburg - 26th October 2010 at 09:48
Thankyou OneEigthBit,yes have all the details of the aircraft invoved and a few small bits of Glider crew equipment picked up at the time.I spoke to Mr Swallow again last night ( who witnessed the event ) he repeated there was a small explosion and a small plume of smoke directly BEFORE the tail fell off.Him and some school friends were watching the Glider being towed by the Stirling as it came over and raced over to the crash scene on their push bikes ( a terrible sight apparently).Bob and his friends visited all the wartime crashes around here ( quite a few British and German).he told me there was the wing of a german aircraft leaning up agains a tree in Mells woods for `donkeys years`. They visited the fresh crashsite of Halifax DT558 just outside mells and were apprehended with their `trophy` by a local policeman who made them return the part.One of the flying helmets of the german crew of a ME110 that crashed at Haydon Pit is owned by a chap in the village who wears it on his `trike`. I was amazed to see a wall still unrepaired 60 years later after a HE111 smashed through it up at Charterhouse…a slow unchanging pace of life around here.
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th October 2010 at 23:08
No no problem at all Tangemere. Bit of healthy debate is never a bad thing as far as I’m concerned. 🙂
I based my beliefs on stuff I’ve turned up over years of doing research in the area of military gliders and interviews with ex British glider pilots. I’m not saying turbulence *couldn’t* break up a Horsa, just that it would be pretty unlikely. If it did other factors like unseen structural damage might be a factor.
Now Hamilcars, they had to worry about tanks driving out the back of them in flight…
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th October 2010 at 22:56
OneEighthBit – I am sure you are correct and I have never studied any in-flight break ups of the Horsa – or indeed the Horsa as an aircraft.
Please take my remark as an aside based upon my perception drawn from looking at the Horsa we chopped up. It certainly appeared pretty darned “iffy” in terms of its structure; materials, construction and workmanship.
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th October 2010 at 22:44
Hindenburg,
The Horsa glider did indeed have explosive bolts fitted to the tail which was added after the Normandy landings to speed up the unloading of the cargo. The Mk I Horsa had a large side door which made a speedy exit difficult for most cargo so taking the tail off and driving straight out the back was better.
The problem was that originally the bolts had to be undone by hand and with the flexes and strain of flight and landing would often jam up resulting in much swinging of the on-board fire axe. Hence after experience in France the explosive bolts were fitted. Many glider pilots were a bit sceptical and wary of them but for the most part they were convinced they were safe enough and would work. Heck half the time they couldn’t get the darn things to fire!
There’s been some debate as to what caused the break-up of the glider. Some say it was turbulence but there is some belief it may of been the explosive bolts in the tail going off or an improperly primed grenade carried by one of the passengers.
Wally Simpson, the tail gunner in the Stirling, said that he watched the glider “part in the middle” and the front pitched down, snapping the tow-rope under the strain before it plummeted down into the ground.
I would respectfully counter Tangmere’s comment because I believe very few Horsa’s broke up in air, most that did were due to on-board explosions, damaged incurred during heavy landings or enemy flak. When you consider the difficulty the crew with tools had taking the tail off, I doubt a few bumps in the air would break it loose that quickly. Turbulence usually meant difficulty controlling the glider and a commanded or forced departure from the tow rope.
I’ll dig through my back issues of the GPRA magazine, “The Eagle” to see if I can find any other info on the crash.
I assume you have all the crews, serials, chalk numbers, etc. already?
By: Wellington285 - 25th October 2010 at 22:43
This web site gives you some more information on the crash. I think there was a piece written in Flypast back in the 80’s showing some recovered items from the glider.
Ian
http://www.normandycoysomersetarmycadetforce.org.uk/Normandy_Coy_Somerset_Army_Cadet_Force/Normandy_Coy_-_Events_(Double_Hills_Memorial).html
By: adrian_gray - 25th October 2010 at 21:24
Yet (and not a lot of help to Hindenburg – sorry!) there’s footage in a documentary on YouTube that I can’t currently find of a Horsa pilot getting it wrong and piling into a Matador lorry. Suffice to say that the Matador comes off a lot worse!
My interest? It’s just beyond a signal square labelled “GS”…
Adrian
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th October 2010 at 20:28
RJ113 was lost when caught in turbulence causing the cable to snap, with the aircraft then breaking up on 17 September 1944.
A few years ago I was asked to move the Horsa fuselage section from Shoreham to Bayeux. Sadly, we had to saw it up to get it out of the building. Frankly, having seen its construction, I am not surprised one of these things broke up in a bit of turbulence! The irony was that the Shoreham aircraft had been built by the Co-Operative Funeral Services (coffin department) according to the rubber stamps on the woodwork.
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October 25, 2010 at 8:07 pm