DH Venom night fighters with the RAF and Sweden

I was in the Waterbeach ASF in the early 50’s and I recollect that when 253 was formed they had some NF-2s, later these were replaced with NF-3s.

I do not recollect any flying accidents, they certainly had a towing accident when another Land Rover ran into the wing of a Venom being towed back from the end of the runway. Unfortunately all the guys in the Land Rover were killed.

I left the RAF in Jan 56 and the NF-3s were shortly replaced with Javelins and 253 was renumbered 25.

Thanks everyone for keeping this thread going. I have been fortunate indeed in finding some folks to help with some first hand experiences of the Venom NFs. I’ll let you know how things go. In the meanwhile keep the stories coming!

Thanks, Peter
I completely understand the reaction as I have just been reading a letter from my father, relating details of a fatal accident while at RAF North Luffenham. The “don’t worry, it won’t happen to me” sentiment seems genuine and not just meant to reassure my mother.
I intend to see if my local library can obtain a copy of “Jet Jockeys” as even used examples seem to be £70 upwards.
Peter C has been most helpful, as he researched my father’s crash and has taken notes from the Court of Inquiry report.
I would be interested to know more about Stradishall in the 1950s, if you have the time, but this string is about Venoms so it may be more appropriate in a private message or a new string.

I would thoroughly recommend “Jet Jockeys” and was unaware that the author was a contributor to this forum.
I apologise David, if I treated your fathers death in a rather offhand manner, by saying I had forgotten it. These things happened and it was best to shut them out of ones mind, and ‘move on’ as the current expression has it. After all, “it couldn’t happen to me” is still the attitude I guess. Now, being a parent myself, these things have more weight, and I find myself more affected now than I was then.

Thanks peter
I have heard from the other Peter, who has researched the accident.
I have checked out the weather for that month and it was utterly appalling in early August.
As I am new to these researches, I did not know of Colin Cumming’s book, or Peter’s “Jet Jockeys”. Does Cummings say more? I may need to check my local library to see if Hampshire have a copy.

Sorry David, my memory is not what it was, because I don’t remember your fathers death. The occasion when 3 aircraft got bogged that I recalled, must have happened on a different occasion, possibly later in the year.

Regarding your fathers accident, I quote from the invaluable “To Fly no More” by Colin Cummings:–
“The aircraft overshot from a GCA and began a visual circuit before landing on the runway. The pilot then called ‘overshooting’ and took off again before commencing a turn to port at low level. The aircraft descended and struck the ground, the port wing broke off and the aircraft went through a hedge, into a small wood and caught fire”

Both crew are listed as being killed, so anything I presume is supposition. A GCA is a Ground Controlled Approach, in which the pilot is talked down by a ground controller with a radar, set up on the airfield. This is to bring the pilot to a position such that he is at the correct height, speed, and direction so that he can get a good visual on the runway, and perform a satisfactory landing.

I do not know how much experience the pilot had, but would guess not too much. It was a common error that pilots would be too nervous to reduce speed sufficiently, and were also a bit high, to make a good landing, and so the overshoot procedure would be initiated as described. If the weather was poor it was essential to do a very disciplined “bad weather circuit”, in order to regain the runway and land successfully. To then overshoot from this shows that the pilot was in some difficulty. Any panic under these circumstances could result in the accident described.

As an aside I well remember flying with an inexperienced pilot under these circumstances and have to talk him very firmly, and as calmly as possible, round a bad wether circuit. This luckily resulted in a successful landing, even though it needed nearly all the 2000 yards available. Bad weather with minimum visibilty and low cloud base was not recommended for the faint hearted.

Or even private message! Apologies, I get confused as to which forum I am on at times.

Peter

David

Sorry, PM is for personal message. Click on your PM’s at the top of the screen.

Peter

PM?
If you mean a post-mortem report, no.
Just a death cert and what the family were told, i.e very little.
I think the RAF were rather busy at the time!
The court of Inquiry was attended (if not chaired) by Wing Commander Anthony Davis, who was flying back to base from the Inquiry when he made observations related to the alleged UFO incident of 13/14 August. What with the nuclear bomber incident at Lakenheath the month before and an exercise taking place, there was rather a lot going on at the time.

David

You have a PM.

Peter

Thanks Peter.
Was the night Venom that “got bogged down” the one in which my father was killed, or did two Venoms overshoot that night?
It must have been very wet for mid-August!
My fathers’s place of death was given as Frogs Hall Wood, Stradishall – doesn’t sound like a patch of boggy Suffolk clay. I can’t believe there were woods at the end of the runway though.

David- Yes I was at Strad in August ’56 and remember the incident. In fact the runway had to be closed for a while, and we were on Exercise Ciano at the time.
Strad is in High Suffolk which is renowned for heavy clay, a Venom had swung off the runway, and got bogged down and was not recovered due to pressure of the exercise. then one of our Meteor NF swung off on the other side with a similar result, but the flying programme continued. Then, during night flying, another Venom overshot and bogged down in the overshoot, so flying had to be abandoned for the night.
I remember flying over the next day and seeing the aircraft scattered over the airfield like a warzone. Very funny.

That – few hours/early chop – was common for the kit funded in the shock of Korea. Something NOW was preferable to the languid newer types sometime. How fortunate we were that National Service crews never had to take Attacker/Sea Hawk/Gannet, NF Meteor…would you believe Lincoln – in build into 1951 – anywhere near the Sovs.

I notice that at least 70 NF3s were sold as scrap on 15.4.1958 together with WX844. After less than 3 years’ service.

The NF3 was ultimately under developed. The Sea Venom, which was essentially the same aeroplane became good. The NF3 never had that opportunity.

Bruce

I guess you refer to the incident at Stradishall. I considered myself lucky to be flying in the Meteor NFs. We were at Stradishall when this incident occurred.
The NF Venom had a bad reputation for accidents, the Coltishall sqdn lost two COs in them, one being a well known WWII NF ace, in addition to several other accidents.

Peter, were you at Stradishall two months earlier, when WX844 overshot on 10 August? This is referred to by “Monsun” in his post. The navigator mentioned was my father, F/O Raymond Hickling. The pilot was J D Hammett.
Posts here suggest that the NF3 was far from ideal to fly. My family assumed that pilot error was to blame but there are discrepancies in the story, including the actual crash site.
I have not yet seen the Court of Inquiry report, as I have only just started researching.

Peter,

Yes, I know – but you would be surprised the number of people who take that for gospel. I knew a guy who trashed the last reasonably complete NF10 trying to turn it into a Mosquito.

Funnily enough it didnt work.

Bruce

What ultimately became of this NF10 then Bruce? I have a vague recollection I have read this somewhere before but thats it…..!

Jon

Peter,

Yes, I know – but you would be surprised the number of people who take that for gospel. I knew a guy who trashed the last reasonably complete NF10 trying to turn it into a Mosquito.

Funnily enough it didnt work.

Bruce

Sorry Bruce, I had my tongue glued firmly in my cheek when I wrote that bit.

Incidentally in the Mossie I thought we perched on the bomb bay.

And for Monsun. I never got on to the Tin Triangle, although I was hopeful.

Its a common misconception that Mosquito parts were used in the construction of the early two seat Vampires, though understandable. In the Mosquito, the pilot and navigator sat on, or were supported by the wing, which went right through the cockpit. Transferring that arrangement to a Vampire, one would have a bloomin big hole!

They did copy the general arrangement, but all of the flight controls were nicked from the single seat Vampire. The AI Mk10 was lifted straight from the Mossie Night fighters.

Bruce