Angels One Five P2617 or PZ875?

Sadsack,
Not really – it seems that parts of Z3687 went into both LF363 and LF571 (ex- Bentley Priory, now Manston) so I’m doubtful that much, if anything, is left.

Too much to hope Z3687 is in store somewhere?

Watched it the other day on DVD. Still a decent wee film.

You have another chance to see the film on Saturday morning. 7:35am BBC2

24th Jan

I think it is venturing onto unsafe ground to positively identify A/C by easily removable items such as radio masts or exhaust stubs; it is true that film production companies still don’t return A/C to their pre filming condition (usually paying the owners to do this themselves) but the time period between the filming and subsequent photos is too great to presume that changes didn’t take place.

Thanks for that Septic. Although the studio aircraft (which was probably used for both the crash scene and the close-ups) may have been Z3687 I wouldn’t have thought they would have bothered taking the film paint off it afterwards. It was still in its all-white scheme at Waterbeach a couple of years later.

G-ORDY, I believe you are correct on this id, all the Portuguese Hurricanes had the tab fitted to the rear of the aerial mast which rules them out, PZ685 had the individual exhaust stacks and a whip aerial, L1592 had a much smaller earlier radio mast and far as is known was not in taxying condition, P2617 had the tab on the aerial mast unlike this photo and the smaller three stack exhausts although I do have a close up sporting a square mirror.

There was also another Hurricane used in the film for the studio shots, I believe it is Z3687 which was used as a spares source for LF363 at the time.

Check out the May 2012 issue of Aeroplane for further info.

I’m glad someone dragged this thread up, as I’m looking at making a model of an Angels One-Five Hurricane sometime!

… Problem is the photos are a bit tricky to interpret …

Although not easy to imagine the 4 inch difference, the fastener layout at the panel join aft of the exhaust stubs is still clear enough in the top photo of post #25 to confirm MkII. Also sports the round style mirror fitted to LF363 for so long. (An engine change could easily account for a change in exhaust stubs, so they are not such a good indicator?)

Not terribly au fait with Hurricanes, but the “22” is longer than the “III”, aren’t the cowlings longer as well? ( or was the longer engine accommodated in the same space)

Spot on Stuart, 4 inches longer to be precise. Problem is the photos are a bit tricky to interpret but with all the other evidence I’m convinced that “P2617” is actually LF363.

Not terribly au fait with Hurricanes, but the “22” is longer than the “III”, aren’t the cowlings longer as well? ( or was the longer engine accommodated in the same space)

Ominous silence on this one …

Anyway, I’ve been taking a very close look at the taxying Hurricane marked as “P2617” (shown in my previous post) and I’m convinced its nothing of the kind … in fact I’m sure its our good friend LF363 (waits for howls of fury)

The evidence:

LF363 was delivered to Kenley Station Flight and was physically there in July 1951 when the film was made (check its Form 700 if you need the proof – I have)
LF363 was given a Minor Inspection by No. 19 MU in May 1951 and then flown to Langley where the cannon mounting tubes were removed and blanking plates fitted by Hawkers, the work was signed off on 24 May 1951. The mounting tubes were refitted 19/20 August.
LF363 was in a rather parlous state at the time and it was recommended that it was not flown at speeds over 180 knots due to excessive vibration of the cockpit section, it also suffered from multiple hydraulic failures between 10 – 25 July whilst at Kenley. A flight planned for 20 July was cancelled but it did manage a single flight of 35 minutes on 24 July and two further flights on 27 July (1:25 in the morning and 0:55 in the afternoon). Its next flight was not until 10 August when the filming was over.
P2617 was fitted with a Merlin III (33739) at the time with quite different exhausts and a different prop (LF363 had a Merlin 22 and a Rotol RS/5/10, serial no. VA.3245 if you are still interested … its not a Spitfire after all!)
P2617 did not have a rear-view mirror fitted (neither before or after the film was made … it still doesn’t)

So my conclusion is that the Hurricane seen taxying with the serial P2617 is in fact LF363. Right engine, right exhausts, right prop, right mirror, right place, right time.

Anyone want to argue with me?

Sorry to drag up an old thread but needs must 🙂

Looking at photos of P2617 every one shows it with the same exhaust stub type fitted EXCEPT when it was seen taxying in “Angels One Five”

I’m just wondering why and when the engine and / or stubs were changed … or is this another Hurricane marked up as “P2617” just to confuse us 60-odd years later?

I must have missed this post first time around, so apologies for dragging it up again.

PZ865 did fly in Angels One Five, the photo of PZ865 posted by Mark12 was taken at the Hendon air display of 1951. PZ865 is easy to spot in the film as its the only Hurri with six individual exhaust stubs and no radio mast. It also appears un coded at the start of the film as Septic’s aircraft.

P2617 also appeared in the film, there is some speculation that it was also flown during the filming although confirmation of this has proved impossible to find.

The photo of LF363 in US B markings was taken on 17 Sept 1961 at Coltishall for a 56 squadron Battle of Britain day Flypast, perhaps this is the reason why the BBMF literature always states that LF363 flew in Angels One Five.

Septic.