Old news but a new update perhaps P-38 found !

Digging the P-38 out….

Well, faintly, I remember as a lad… digging in the sand close to the sea at Skegness and Chapel St. Leonards…. Every time I dug a little spade full of sand out of the beach, the hole would fill with sea water, then I would dig a bit more and the sea water would come in faster until I got a decent sized hole then the sides would collapse and then a wave would come in and level the whole lot out again….

Simple digging is not an option. Recall the Halifax in the Zuider Zee had to have pilings around it… same thing on the Welsh Beach. You will not be able to simply “dig it out” for it will go in deeper and deeper the more you dig. It is tidal isn’t it ? Perhaps King Canute could have another attempt at holding it back, or have we forgotten him ?

A circle of interlocking pilings will be required which will be horribly expensive. Best left where it is is still the best option. Put a memorial on the beach if the greenies will allow it if you want to pay respects to the fallen but would it be appropriate for this aircraft, which I understand never saw combat ?

RPM…

There is also the possibility of others being in close proximity to Llanbedr such as Firefly drones,jindiviks etc.
I remember as a boy,Meteors etc on finals whilst on the beach,the flight path being directly overhead.
There maybe more?.

There’s definitely one Firefly, but it’s in a bit deeper water.

The closeness of Llanbedr is that within a stone’s throw of are hangars which are disused so some negociation could be entered into as to any possibility of there being temporary use. There is no need to consider using anything like a Hercules as the is a perfectly adequate road system which channels tourists past this part of the world.
As for three months digging it out – its not a big aircraft and the booms etc are visible so your main digging isn’t going to be around those but under the cockpit and wings.
I cannot see why you would wish to be involved in taking wings off when you could just as easily remove the cockpit pod and booms and move it as a long load. The idea of making a tank would be a nightmare when the onus would be on salt removal and inhibiting the metal as quickly as possible. The aircraft is easily accessible and there are no issues with getting suitable plant close to it.

All that remains is the financial will .

A mate has offered the use of his JCB & Ifor Williams Flat Bed Trailer and I can get some rubber rings from the local pool – if someone can source a stirrup pump I think we can make this baby fly again……..

The aircraft, largely intact and remarkably free of corrosion, is one of the most significant WWII-related archaeological discoveries in recent history.

The Tighar guys aren,t thinking of running in politics..Thats a classic.

ZRX61

Spot on…. You’ve hit the right button again !

David Burke

You wrote (in a post earlier):

A sensible approach by someone like the IWM could involve recruiting suitable volunteers with the offer of a week in sunny North Wales and a little bit of glory. Whilst I agree with you that deterioration will happen very quickly -the aircraft is very close to a former airfield and I don’t view it as an ‘impossible’ recovery .

A week in Wales on the beach with volunteers with buckets and spades will not help on this one. Three months maybe. Heavy equipment will be needed and if a crane is not available in that area maybe a Chinook with a hook will be needed. There will still be the requirement for a cradle or it will break up during the lift out of the ‘oggin. There will still be a requirement for a levee around it and there will still be the immediate need of a water tank. The job of getting rid of the sand inside the shell will be another of the major problems. Look at the position of the wreck, you cannot see the booms or the tops of the fins. Are the booms broken or is the wreck resting nose high ?

I don’t see the reasoning behind the closeness of Llanbedr (?). Do you mean that in a sense of disassembling the wreck and then carting it to Duxford by a Herc ? Disassembling it after all those years in the sea and sand will see pneumatic chisels being used to chop off the wing attachment bolts, boom attachment bolts, etc; as they’ll be corroded and impossible to shift. Even the vibration of doing that will endanger what left of the appearance of the wreck.

What are the “greenies” doing about this ? The Environmentalists usually get involved where there is pristine beauty such as that beach in Wales.

Logistically it will be a nightmare, not impossible, I grant you. Tighar claim to be experts on many things but the proof is in the pudding and we haven’t even seen one wreck “recovered” by them so far and there are far more easier wrecks to recover then this one.

I still firmly believe it is the requirement for “continuing” OPM which is the driving force behind this and everything else that Tighar does. ZRX61 is saying exactly what I also believe.

RPM…

You can Just make her out on google earth also 😉

There is also the possibility of others being in close proximity to Llanbedr such as Firefly drones,jindiviks etc.
I remember as a boy,Meteors etc on finals whilst on the beach,the flight path being directly overhead.
There maybe more?.

I must ask: if TIGHAR have never actually recovered an aircraft, then what is it they actually do?

They take vacations to various exotic locations around the planet funded by gullible idiots & write it all off as a tax loss….

Frazer Nash

To ascertain what TIGHAR actually does, go to their website: www.tighar.org, and set aside about three years to read all the articles that exist on there. Their Tighar Forum is interesting too and there are pages and pages of discussions on that….. but NO announcemnts of actual aircraft recoveries in the 20-odd years of TIGHAR’s existence during which at least single figure millions of around five fingers of OPM have been spent. Therefore, the grand and somewhat difficult acronym including the word “recovery” is a misnomer.

RPM…

Duxford would be the ideal location for this P-38

Without question Duxford would be an ideal site for this P-38 at the American Museum Hangar as a tribute to all who fought in WW II ! I am sure those with recovery expertise in UK could pull this off. Here is South Carolina in the city of Charleston they have a similiar site like that of the Mary Rose….. The recovery of the Confederate Submarine USS Huntley . Recovered a few years ago and sits in a salt water tank ..preserved for all to see and enjoy. Truly an international recovery project …. perhaps a project like this would be possible . It sad that there is no flying P-38 in the UK today. To think of all the ones melted down and destroyed after the war…. hard to even think about that. Just hope it can be recovered before to much longer !

BlueNoser352 !

http://www.thehunley.com/

Think 3 threads on this topic might be useful – TIGGER may be able to actually locate one of them!!!!

If TIGHAR are to be believed it is in conjunction/for the IWM, I seem to recall.

I wonder if the IWM know that?!

BTW, might it be an idea to merge the two threads on this topic? If not three threads if one includes a very old one.

Duxford would be an ideal location in a diorama fashion

Hypothetically speaking, is there a UK group that wants to, or could actually take this on, and probably more importantly display it?

Where there is a will, there is a way. TIGHAR do not have sole rights to this. It has been known for a licence to be issued to more than one person….this is exactly the sort of case where that could be done. A combined effort with suitable volunteer sposnorship and a home for it could see it entirely recovered by an ‘in-country’ team.

I have a job lot of plastic buckets and spade in the garage – bring your own wellies and packed lunches, we’re going to the seaside!!!!!!!!!!

Let Tigger try and stop us!!!!!

I must ask: if TIGHAR have never actually recovered an aircraft, then what is it they actually do? Find and document them? Destroy them in abortive attempts to recover them? I’m very interested to find out.

Absolutely right, David, as is pagen and the comparison to the Mary Rose. The site is very accessible. I first heard about the P-38’s existence nearly 40 years ago and how its prop tips emerged at low tide. But I could never get a group interested enough to attempt a recovery. What we don’t want is for it to be recovered piecemeal by various groups and spread around the country.

This is what happened to another P-38 wreck in the Welsh Mountains which, in the 1960s, was almost all there in very large sections. Judging by its remarkable state of preservation and relative lack of damage, the P-38 was built like the proverbial brick outhouse so the Harlech one may just be in a better state than we think. Only one way to find out! It needs to be at Duxford if it can possibly be achieved …

Good point DB, attractive in its own right, an aviation version of the Mary Rose.

I think maybe $2-3 million dollars is a little on the rich side !!! Bear in mind we are talking North Wales and not the jungles of PNG ! Effectively nothing could be done -which would result in this ‘Asprin’ of a P-38 dissolving entirely within a few years .A sensible approach by someone like the IWM could involve recruiting suitable volunteers with the offer of a week in sunny North Wales and a little bit of glory. Whilst I agree with you that deterioration will happen very quickly -the aircraft is very close to a former airfield and I don’t view it as an ‘impossible’ recovery .
Effectively we are talking about an aircraft that is greatly compromised in terms of it’s structure – but enough to call it a P-38 and I feel that the will is there to recover it ! Imagine walking down into the AAM at Duxford and being confronted by a preserved wreck of a P-38 -it has a story to tell and would provide a clear link with the fallen of the U.S in maybe a way that the other exhibits don’t!