RBL Replica Spitfire

RBL Spitfire Project

I would like to reassure contributors that the decision to close the Spitfire Project was not made lightly nor without a full consideration of its achievements and potential.

In the last two years, the Legion centrally has supported the project offering PR, inclusion at a key national event and lending £11,000 to enable the purchase of a trailer for the replica.

From the outset we had to establish if this project was sustainable for further investment. In 2008, following representation in London from the project leader, Howard Whiting, it was agreed to form a review body to look at the Spitfire Project in the round. We formed a review panel which included: Howard plus a County Chairman, a Regional Manager and two Legion Directors – including myself.

The project’s first review was on 12 January 2009. Much information was still needed so it was agreed with Howard to allow the programme to run during 2009 and to formally review its performance at the end of the year.

The group identified and agreed two major performance criteria:

• The project costs and income generated; and
• The degree of awareness of the Legion and its work generated

Howard submitted his Report on the performance of the project in December 2009. (He was unable to attend the actual review meeting for personal reasons.)

With all the information before it, the panel agreed that, while there was no doubting the public interest generated by the replica there was no evidence of its having raised awareness and knowledge of the Legion and its work to any significant extent. Furthermore, the financial information showed both recruiting and fundraising achievements were minimal.

The major focus of the Legion’s communications is to raise awareness of its work today – especially for the younger Service Community. But, as an icon of WW2, the replica focuses the public’s mind away from this message and onto the past. This was borne out by the events it attended in 2009 – which were in the main retrospective celebrations.

Howard’s Report acknowledged that going forward the project would need dedicated in-house support for marketing and sponsorship as well as enthusiasts to move, erect and dismantle the replica. In our discussions, the Panel estimated this would mean considerable financial resources committed to the venture – at least £40,000 per annum on top of the £30,000 already spent on the project.

The panel was very aware of – and acknowledged – the huge contribution of volunteers and members of the Ripon Branch to the Spitfire project. It would not have become a reality without the enthusiasm and dedication those who individually and collectively committed many thousands of hours to it.

However, given the information at hand it was not possible to justify any further large expenditure of charity funds. The panel reluctantly decided to close the Spitfire Project immediately and to try to recoup costs by disposal of the replica and related items. Howard was informed and invited to London for a full discussion of the decision.

While the decision was bound to be disappointing we hope that it will be understood as both logical and pragmatic.

Hello,

This is what you get when you decide to employ “Professional peple”, who have probably spent a fortune on “market research” to justify any decision they may make, [common sense has no place].

As the poppy is associated with the WW1, I presume its day is numbered.

633

To be fair, yes, but I am sure the RBL have made a point in recent years of laying great stress on incorporating ALL conflicts into Remembrance Day. After all post 1945 the 2nd World War was included. That, hoever, does not detract from what seems to be an act of near vandalism. Perhaps more facts will emerge.

That’s sad.

I do a lot of charity work with my replica Spitfire, donating my own time and money assisting different charities, mainly military, including yours, etc raising thousands.

What you say here is, I give out the wrong message for your company?

The major focus of the Legion’s communications is to raise awareness of its work today – especially for the younger Service Community. But, as an icon of WW2, the replica focuses the public’s mind away from this message and onto the past. This was borne out by the events it attended in 2009 – which were in the main retrospective celebrations.

Does this mean that as a military charity if it wasn’t for Afganistan you guys would have wound up proceedings and ceased trading?

yours confused

Baz

It’s worth remembering that ‘big’ charities in the UK are virtual businesses with the hierarchy of one too. Don’t be fooled by the warm glow of just giving money without question to them. For some people working for one of these charities it is a career choice and they have very insular views.
If you want to give to people to do good keep it local I say. It sounds mercinary but if you are working on something for free, one needs to be clear about ultimate ownership.

Graham

The major focus of the Legion’s communications is to raise awareness of its work today – especially for the younger Service Community. But, as an icon of WW2, the replica focuses the public’s mind away from this message and onto the past. This was borne out by the events it attended in 2009 – which were in the main retrospective celebrations.

No concession there, is there?
So, by LENDING £11,000 for the trailer and providing PR and inclusion at a key national event, the RBL says “the Panel estimated this would mean considerable financial resources committed to the venture – at least £40,000 per annum on top of the £30,000 already spent on the project.”
“…. focuses the public’s mind away from this message and on to the past………”
“….events which were mainly retrospective….” What on earth does that mean? Are the RBL involved in planning FUTURE Wars then?

Isn’t everything the RBL is supposed to stand for retrospective????

Hmmmm remind me, what does REMEMBRANCE Day signify?
Poppy to go next then….

‘LEST WE FORGET’ seems to be becoming ‘I THINK WE’VE FORGOTTEN’

Jeff

What a bunch of b*ll

Stuart……….

Welcome to the Forum. I have read your statement several times, can’t help thinking that it comes from the pen of a management consultant…. or is that me being cynical?

Planemike

Maybe I am being missing something here but I don’t understand how there is a need to commit £40,000 ( around £800 a week) to the Spitfire project in the coming year.
The replica has been built so the costs of maintenance must be minimal.
The trailer has been bought so again maintenance must be fairly minimal.
What other sponsorship and support is required other than insurabnce which presumerably is covered by a central RBL policy?
Maybe RBL is paying for fuel to move the replica to and from shows and maybe they are contributing towards the food and drinks for volunteers who staff the stand when the Spit is on show (although in my experience most genuine as opposed to “professional” volunteers usually take their own food and drink to keep costs down) so what other sponsorship and support is required?
What marketing is required?
You turn up, unpack the Spit, get out the stand, tables and chairs, make it look as attractive as possible and wait for the public to turn up, ask questions and possibly join the RBL or make a donation – hard work yes but not exactly rocket science.
I suppose there is always the possibility that they have had to pay for the pitch at some events although my understanding is that at many events charities either get free pitches or a greatly reduced rate. If RBL aren’t getting any discounts when it comes to space at events then maybe someone in RBL should be a little more pushy when it comes to negotiations with organisers.
I just can’t see how any of this adds up to an average of about £800 a week.
As far as awareness of the Legion and its work goes. Surely there is a leaflet available outlining the aims of the legion which could be given out at events to those who show a genuine interest. If there is no leaflet then someone in publicity isn’t on the ball.
Of course the other possibiltiy is that there are such leaflets and every one of these is charged out to the Spitfire project workers at x pence each and this is where a large part of the £40,000 comes from.
I also don’t understand how you can possibly assess how much awareness of the RBL the replica has generated. It is such an intangible thing to measure.
In my view the RBL statement has a lot of words but doesn’t really say much. It seems to emphasise all the negatives without seeking to find any positive way to move forward other than “let’s not worry about the money we have already sunk into this – let’s just cut our losses and run. – sorry not impressed.

£11k for a trailer? shame Baz didn’t know they wanted one….what a load of b0ll0cks.

Within the rareified world of ‘management’, it is essential to be in an almost constant state of change, to ‘rebrand’ , ‘reinvent’, ‘re-postion the business’, for without these ongoing ‘big decisions,’ there would be a much-diminished need for the ‘big-decision makers’. ‘More of the same’ will NOT do.

I once worked for a large UK company in which the decision was taken that the company profile would be more friendly by adopting the ‘Peanuts’ cartoon characters as a fundamental component of the public image. At great expense, everything was ‘Snoopified’, from sign-writing , letter-heads and vehicles. It was a huge disaster, looked unprofessional and everybody laughed. So at further huge expense, it was all undone again.

”The panel was very aware of – and acknowledged – the huge contribution of volunteers and members of the Ripon Branch to the Spitfire project. It would not have become a reality without the enthusiasm and dedication those who individually and collectively committed many thousands of hours to it. ”
Stuart Gendalll

”And I’d just like to add on a personal note, my own
admiration for what you’re doing for us, Brian, and what
must be after all
for you a very difficult time.
Brian: Reg! Wh…what are you going to do?
Reg: Good-bye Brian, and thanks.
Rogers: All right, Brian. Keep it up, lad.
Loretta: Terrific work, Brian.
Reg: Yeah. Right.”

I really cannot understand how the volunteers are expected to buy back a replica which they built? The future operating costs look rather high but of course that is only a forecast. This is a very unfortunate mess which does not reflect well on the RBL. Thankfully there are now other charities which work locally and have a much simpler structure with lower costs.

😮 £800 a week,is it being sheltered in Buckingham Palace and waited on by butlers.
I ‘ll stick it in my Garage for £500 a week:rolleyes:
It certainly makes you lose faith in Charities when “business” and consultants take over.

Suggest RBL sell the £11,000 trailer for as much as they can get for it and offer the replica to the builder’s for the balance???

Roger Smith.

Photo of Spitfire on trailer

Thanks, Robert, but pardon my apparent ignorance here, why is this trailer so narrow and short, as there appears no room for the wings, etc to be carried on it as well?
For £11,000, I would have expected a more protective piece of kit for it…..

Edit: Correction: There is this article in The Northern Echo dated 5th May 2008 relating to Bill Plant Ltd providing a trailer and Land Rover Defenders for transport…..

Roadside assistance for replica Spitfire
8:48am Monday 5th May 2008

By Ian Noble

A STRANDED replica Second World War fighter built by volunteers will tour air shows in the UK after a businessman stepped in to help make it mobile. Volunteers from the Royal British Legion’s (RBL) branch in Ripon, North Yorkshire, spent 7,000 hours and more than 11 months building the full-size replica Spitfire. It is the only one of its kind in the UK and was built as close to the original drawings for the fighter as possible. The aircraft is more than nine metres long, but does not have an engine, so volunteers were left with the problem of how to transport it.

Then Ripon-based Bill Plant Limited, a driver training company, contacted the group and arranged to move the plane with the loan of two vehicles and an exhibition unit. Howard Whiting, chairman of the RBL’s Ripon branch, said: “Interest in the aircraft is immense.

“But it’s not an easy thing to take around. In fact, travel arrangements to air shows and events was a nightmare until Bill Plant Limited stepped in.” The Spitfire was stored and maintained at RAF Leeming, near Bedale, while it was being built. Funds raised by the plane’s appearances at events will go towards helping to support RBL members and their families.

It is also hoped that the Spitfire project will educate people about the sacrifices made by the Armed Forces.

Bill Plant, managing director of Bill Plant Limited, said: “We are very proud to have the opportunity to be able to help in this way to support the Royal British Legion. “We are proud to support its work with servicemen past and present – in particular those involved in recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq.” The replica Spitfire will be at Ripon market place on Saturday, May 17, before heading off on a nationwide tour. Among the shows it will visit are The Great Yorkshire Show, at Harrogate, and the Sunderland International Air Show, both in July. The plane is built from aluminium and instead of an engine has counter balance weights fitted to keep it level.

Visitors can sit in the plane’s cockpit and feel what it was like to be a Second World War fighter pilot. Its wingspan is 11.2 metres, but the wings can be detached for transportation.

Thanks, Robert, but pardon my apparent ignorance here, why is this trailer so narrow and short, as there appears no room for the wings, etc to be carried on it as well?
For £11,000, I would have expected a more protective piece of kit for it…..

The size of the trailer is regulated to what is pulling it. The max size to pull behind a Disco is 7m x 2.3m bed, which is what that Spitfire is sat on. Same bed as mine but different axle arrangement. The reason for lack of protection I guess would be weight, same problem as mine. I believe the RBL trailer was bespoke built by Bateson trailers (as was mine) but when I approached Bateson, he advised against a heavy ‘A’ frame trailer for a more conventional lighter (cheaper) flat-bed. To keep the weight down to carry the wings I also had to forgo protection. The ‘A’ frame trailer is very difficult to reverse and can be uncomfortable when towing as it transmits any bounce through the tow-hitch and can lead to snatching on the road. I paid 5k for mine and it’s a delight to tow. Of my 20 odd (ifor williams) trailers, it’s my favourite:)

It’s a great looking replica, hope the RBL comes to it’s senses.

As a matter of interest:

The plane is built from aluminium and instead of an engine has counter balance weights fitted to keep it level.

what does that mean?

Baz

as an icon of WW2, the replica focuses the public’s mind away from this message and onto the past. This was borne out by the events it attended in 2009 – which were in the main retrospective celebrations.

This is nonsense. Forgive me, but it really is.

If these were retrospective ‘celebrations’ as Stuart puts it, then surely the people in attendence were already focussed on the past, and if this focus can be harnessed by a worthwhile cause (be it for the ‘younger service community’ or not) then so much the better.

As for this younger ‘community’ (telling word, that) – Stuart, have you explained to them that when they get to a frail and vulnerable old age your charity will no longer be focussed on them either? I think you should.

So it seems that RBL have been loaned the towing vehicles and an exhibition unit so this still begs the question
“Where are the figures to show that it will need funding amounting to approx £800 a week to keep the project going for the next year.?”

I was lucky enough to see this fantastic project last October at Stow on the Wold, I commented that it would be nice if it had an instrument panel, but the chap there looking after it said ‘it did’ but they were told to take it out for Heath ans Safety reasons!

Jules