How To Try And List A Building?

Well said Steve, it’s like ramblers who have forced land owners to allow them to roam at will through cropped fields then kick up the poo when they are injured by cattle…….. I often wonder what the reaction would be if a coach load farmers turfed up at their houses and wandered round their gardens walking on their flowerbeds, climbing over their fences and leaving the gates open letting their dogs etc out……….

I like your thinking…..

Many thanks to everyone for all your help, REF you have a PM;)
All the best Matt

Do we know where the building is and what building it is?

At a guess Upwood.

Jon

Do we know where the building is and what building it is?

Better still, get over to AiX – Airfield Information Exchange at:http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/
The people over there are in the know, they are the people who advise English Heritage, Defence Estates etc and they know the ropes.

I believe Matt is a member anyway, but you can do alot worse than PM NP over there about this matter, he realy does know the ropes and pitfalls

Don’t forget aswel, that listed building can also loose that status and become unprotected, usually when a local council or government body sees fit!

How flattering for him 🙂 Listed status really means it cannot be altered without consent. In reality if consent is obtained for example, for an extension to a listed dwelling, you can carry out the works VAT free. Of course if you just wish to repair or maintain said listed structure VAT is charged at the standard rate :rolleyes:

That sounds like a typically a*** about face government way of doing things.

As the son of a man who had his new business premises secretly grade 2 listed by local historians who decided that someone else should preserve the building for their pleasure I would politely suggest that if someone decides that they want to have a building listed so it can be preserved then at least have the courage to approach the owner and see how he feels about it ,OR buy the building yourself and invest shed loads of your own money in it !!

I can speak from personal experience that it cost my father very nearly his life in terms of health through the stress,and good slice of all that he had earned over 20 year period.

I have no problem with buildings or anything else for that matter being preserved if it genuinely has a historic importance, but it is completely wrong to go around having other peoples property secretly put under such conditions just because it seem like a good idea in someone else opinion.

Its a bit like the age old argument about aircraft authentic colour schemes and markings , when you have purchased your Spitfire you are free to paint it any colour you like ,bu until then its upto the owner !!

Steve

Steve, I agree with you with your tone. In trying to get Driffield preserved I’ve always tried to make suggestions – to think out of the box; to be creative.

For example there is a building in the centre of Hull that survived the war and is to be demolished (or rather it was to be demolished but the recent credit crunch put a hold on things). My argument is not to bang the drum and say you can’t knock that building down. My argument or train of thought is to approach the owner and see if an alternative can be found. If they can find a tenant for this iconic structure, then this might free up land or property elsewhere that might be more profitable to redevelop. It you give a solution to a problem then you might save the building.

The problem I have is mindset. Developers love their comfort zones. Suggest anything beyond the norm and they don’t like it. Then again some developers can only see the bottom line and nothing else. They will and do use every trick in the book to get their way. They promise the earth (and intimidate) – anything to get there way.

Regarding you Dad’s experience, he should have been informed that someone wanted to list his building. He could have applied for a certificate of immunity – thus preventing statutory protection.

How flattering for him 🙂 Listed status really means it cannot be altered without consent. In reality if consent is obtained for example, for an extension to a listed dwelling, you can carry out the works VAT free. Of course if you just wish to repair or maintain said listed structure VAT is charged at the standard rate :rolleyes:

Listed status is a double edged sword. Yes, it prevents a building from being demolished (though the owner can block any attempt to have a building listed), but it also makes it financially unviable to refurbish or renovate the building in the first place, because restoring a building using like for like materials and processes is very expensive and financially unviable.

Also going down the route of getting a building listed might prompt the owner to demolish the building sooner rather than later. I think this happened at Driffield.

There needs to be an alternative in which a building can be protected from demolition while allowing the owner to use modern materials during refurbishment. As long as the external appearance and prominent internal fixtures were retained, the owner should be given consent to redevelop the building without the usual constraints that otherwise would prevent a lot of buildings from being saved.

Regarding the listing of aerodrome buildings. There isn’t a level playing field. You can have two identical buildings (built using the same plans) on two different airfields with comparable histories, yet one building is recommended for listed status and the other is left to its own fate. Like it or not, but the whole issue of aerodrome protection (from single structures to entire sites) has become extremely political – this due in part to the housing crisis. Without going off on a tangent (too late), house building is about money (profit) and the government will do anything it can to bolster the housing market. They have changed the rules that dictate what can be build and where, while the recent Thematic Study by English Heritage has been used by numerous government officials to prove they care about our aerodrome heritage but not beyond what has been done so far.

If the building you wish to save is miles from anywhere, singular and not in the way of the developer you might succeed, but if you consider listed status as being the means to save a building from being demolished because someone wants the land on which it is built for houses then good luck. There is support out there, but…

Matt, can I ask what building you are trying to save?

This is where the RAF Museum should be relocated from Hendon. Just a pleasant thought. They would get more money for Hendon.

John

Good idea, though I’ve always though that the RAF Museum would be better if relocated to the banks of the River Thames in the centre of London – built on government owned land.

Regarding Bicester, it’s considered the jewel in the crown, but the MoD want top dollar for this site, but no developer (with money) wants it because the buildings are protected. In all honesty I can see the buildings being delisted (after ten years) and demolished, UNLESS the MoD accept they won’t get top dollar for the site AND/OR if English Heritage allow some house building (needed to balance the books).

Bicester won’t become another Duxford because that costs money and how do you fill four aircraft hangars?

Well said Steve, it’s like ramblers who have forced land owners to allow them to roam at will through cropped fields then kick up the poo when they are injured by cattle…….. I often wonder what the reaction would be if a coach load farmers turfed up at their houses and wandered round their gardens walking on their flowerbeds, climbing over their fences and leaving the gates open letting their dogs etc out……….

At the risk of going off topic, modern work can certainly be listed and I know an architect in Liverpool who has had one of his own buildings listed, which means even he, the designer, can’t make major alterations!

How flattering for him 🙂 Listed status really means it cannot be altered without consent. In reality if consent is obtained for example, for an extension to a listed dwelling, you can carry out the works VAT free. Of course if you just wish to repair or maintain said listed structure VAT is charged at the standard rate :rolleyes:

Listed Buildings

As the son of a man who had his new business premises secretly grade 2 listed by local historians who decided that someone else should preserve the building for their pleasure I would politely suggest that if someone decides that they want to have a building listed so it can be preserved then at least have the courage to approach the owner and see how he feels about it ,OR buy the building yourself and invest shed loads of your own money in it !!

I can speak from personal experience that it cost my father very nearly his life in terms of health through the stress,and good slice of all that he had earned over 20 year period.

I have no problem with buildings or anything else for that matter being preserved if it genuinely has a historic importance, but it is completely wrong to go around having other peoples property secretly put under such conditions just because it seem like a good idea in someone else opinion.

Its a bit like the age old argument about aircraft authentic colour schemes and markings , when you have purchased your Spitfire you are free to paint it any colour you like ,bu until then its upto the owner !!

Steve

Jules: As I understand it, a key factor in the listing of Bicester was work done for English Heritage by some of the people who are now involved with AiX.

At the risk of going off topic, modern work can certainly be listed and I know an architect in Liverpool who has had one of his own buildings listed, which means even he, the designer, can’t make major alterations!

This is where the RAF Museum should be relocated from Hendon. Just a pleasant thought. They would get more money for Hendon.

John

We have managed to get RAF Bicester listed, the entire site because of its completeness as a pre war bomber airfield.
Not only the buildings but the vista from them across the flying field.
The future still hangs in the balance, as the Defence estates want to sell it for as much as possible.But it would make a fantastic museum, another ‘Duxford’

Jules

Better still, get over to AiX – Airfield Information Exchange at:

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/

The people over there are in the know, they are the people who advise English Heritage, Defence Estates etc and they know the ropes.

The Twentieth Century Society would be marching on Whitehall!

I did not mean that ‘modern’ buildings could not be listed, just that the airfield architecture might not be considered as significant, ie if it exists else where in the UK. But the events and the buildings ‘place in history’ might warrant consideration.

Also try contacting your local authority, they might have an ‘unoffical ‘ inventory of interesting local buildings which although not giving legal protection might afford some assurance that works / demolition can at least be delayed whilst objections are raised.

Matt this web-link might give you a flavour of what you’re getting into http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.18338

Try downloading some of the documents!