Ten Gun MK 1A Spitfire???

I quote “Blind drunk & Bu99ered”….. seems petty conslusive I think I can probably talk his associates out of taking action if you were to hand over that handsome Spitfire of yours as compensation ;):diablo: do we have a deal 😀

Sorry not with you, what are you saying r.e preferences? I think you have misconstrued my totally innocent remark, about the evils of drink…..

I quote “Blind drunk & Bu99ered”….. seems petty conslusive I think I can probably talk his associates out of taking action if you were to hand over that handsome Spitfire of yours as compensation ;):diablo: do we have a deal 😀

Quite possibly although I would tread carefully around Ronnie’s alleged preferences I believe remarks of that nature got Cornell shot.:diablo:

Indeed, although it has to be noted that it was you that made the connection, between my remark, and any persons living (or dead); I was thinking more about the pub name…..

Possibly the origin of the phrase “Blind drunk & Bu99ered”…..

Quite possibly although I would tread carefully around Ronnie’s alleged preferences I believe remarks of that nature got Cornell shot.:diablo:

Anyway Graham, whilst you were wasting time drinking I was out researching…and finally managed to track down DB’s crashed Spitfire.
History again proved wrong, with no sign of a missing tail section.

Remarkably good condition a superb find Andy was his missing leg still in the Cockpit?

Well actually I was impersonating Bader havent you heard of Him???
Personally I’m not convinced Ronnie shot him in the BB I think he was stitched up, I saw their interview in 1963 and they swore they were just Business men who had to deal with the odd drunk.
Heres another picture of Bader stood by the bar where Cornell was allegedly shot.:diablo:

Possibly the origin of the phrase “Blind drunk & Bu99ered”…..

Anyway Graham, whilst you were wasting time drinking I was out researching…and finally managed to track down DB’s crashed Spitfire.
History again proved wrong, with no sign of a missing tail section.

That was just to throw you off the scent. Probably thought you were the “old Bill” back to find out more about George Cornell. I like the picture of you outside the pub. Are you inpersonating William Booth? Or Simon de Montfort just back from Evesham?

See…I know a thing or two ’bout the blind beggar. Know nothing about gunsights though. Or Douglas Bader.

Well actually I was impersonating Bader havent you heard of Him???
Personally I’m not convinced Ronnie shot him in the BB I think he was stitched up, I saw their interview in 1963 and they swore they were just Business men who had to deal with the odd drunk.
Heres another picture of Bader stood by the bar where Cornell was allegedly shot.:diablo:

That was just to throw you off the scent. Probably thought you were the “old Bill” back to find out more about George Cornell. I like the picture of you outside the pub. Are you inpersonating William Booth? Or Simon de Montfort just back from Evesham?

See…I know a thing or two ’bout the blind beggar. Know nothing about gunsights though. Or Douglas Bader.

Graham

Glad that made sense….cos the red wine consumed since lunch has hardly been conducive to me making much sense at all. However, the thin sheet screwed to the inside of curved casting is metal on all those I have seen – although its surprising how many variations one finds on stuff like this.

LOL you and me both 🙂 I was getting worried then for a minute, thought I was seeing things.
Must have been the visit to the Blind Begger seems a bit quieter since Ronney Kray was there, I was actually there to do research on the Bader legend, it seems he may have also been to the Blind Begger whilst on a rare trip away from the Stork Hotel. I did get a signed statement from the 25 year old Bar maid that Bader had definately been in there. Is it in your Book?:diablo:

Graham

Glad that made sense….cos the red wine consumed since lunch has hardly been conducive to me making much sense at all. However, the thin sheet screwed to the inside of curved casting is metal on all those I have seen – although its surprising how many variations one finds on stuff like this.

There is the main casting, which incorporates the curved piece to receive the screen, and then there is a thin alloy shaped piece held in by four (I think?) brass screws. In effect, this helps hold the reflector screen by creating the “lip” for it to sit on. There is then a horseshoe shaped strip on the outside that fastens it all together. Does that make sense?

Anyway, the Downland Aviation repros incorporate all of that faithfully although in the case of your gunsight it is clearly original anyway.

A very nice piece indeed!

That all makes perfect sence thankyou, will go out to my shed tomorrow and look the Downland pieces, i was sure they did that all in one piece with the horseshoe on the outside holding the glass in. As I said i stand to be corrected the Downland repros pieces are very good.
Having had a closer look the inner piece which forms the lip feels like Bakolite.
Its actually one of the pair I found at Shoreham in a box of jet parts all those years ago and always regretted selling, now i have it back. 🙂

There is the main casting, which incorporates the curved piece to receive the screen, and then there is a thin alloy shaped piece held in by four (I think?) brass screws. In effect, this helps hold the reflector screen by creating the “lip” for it to sit on. There is then a horseshoe shaped strip on the outside that fastens it all together. Does that make sense?

Anyway, the Downland Aviation repros incorporate all of that faithfully although in the case of your gunsight it is clearly original anyway.

A very nice piece indeed!

Not pedantic, Air Min! Absolutely correct.

As for the split in the top casting, I will need to find mine but I am pretty certain it is one piece? Am I understanding correctly what you think has a split in it – ie the top casting that incorporates the reflector screen? In other words, there is a split in the casting at the back edge (facing the pilot) which must run through the centre of the sorbo rubber mounting? Unfortunately, this is obscured in your pics Graham. Can you clarify what/where you mean?

Hello Andy

I must admit I only noticed it when i got it home, i never had reason to question its authenticity as i know its provenance.
But it appears that the two uprights at the rear are in two pieces, I am prepared to be corrected but its a difference I noticed from the re-cast copies i have. 🙂

Thinking back to the one you and I inspected at Whitwick, I got the impression that the top casting was in fact a machined piece, i.e. not cast at all. It had a very smooth surface, iirc, whereas the one in your pic looks to be sand cast (an engineer can step in and correct me here!).

It’s a lovely piece Graham, and it’s got me wondering how many times Section References were changed about. By the end of the war, Ref. 7A would indicate a Bren Gun spare but I doubt that sight would fit on one!

Hello Air Min

Reference numbers are a nightmare I have been looking at them for years and still dont understand most of them, why didnt we use a system like the Germans, I cant to profess to know much about German stuff but from what i have seen you can ID most parts to the individual aircraft type.
I guess its like learning English we have many uses for a single word.
I have to say I would be totally lost without your ref manuals they are as close as I get to reading a Bible:diablo:
Back to that gunsight you could be right it may have been turned, apart from the perpex sighting glass and the fixings it just didnt feel or look right, it seems its almost impossible to get a perfect match in finish, the great thing is the bases all always original which give the tops away.:)

Not pedantic, Air Min! Absolutely correct.

As for the split in the top casting, I will need to find mine but I am pretty certain it is one piece? Am I understanding correctly what you think has a split in it – ie the top casting that incorporates the reflector screen? In other words, there is a split in the casting at the back edge (facing the pilot) which must run through the centre of the sorbo rubber mounting? Unfortunately, this is obscured in your pics Graham. Can you clarify what/where you mean?

Being pedantic, wouldn’t the Spitfire IA have had a G42 camera installed, at least originally? (The one in Bob’s photo being the later, and much more common, Type G45.)

Unlike the one i saw resently at an airojumble this is the real macoy, one give away from the re-cast repros is that the top is cast in two pieces, if you look carefully from the back you can see a vertical line in the top casting. The repros I have and have seen are cast in one piece and dont have this line.

Thinking back to the one you and I inspected at Whitwick, I got the impression that the top casting was in fact a machined piece, i.e. not cast at all. It had a very smooth surface, iirc, whereas the one in your pic looks to be sand cast (an engineer can step in and correct me here!).

It’s a lovely piece Graham, and it’s got me wondering how many times Section References were changed about. By the end of the war, Ref. 7A would indicate a Bren Gun spare but I doubt that sight would fit on one!

Yep it’s the gun camera port…

As seen on BM597 at Duxford.

And usually shooting through that port is one of these…

Interesting stuff lesson learnt, heres the reason i went up to London. Unlike the one i saw resently at an airojumble this is the real macoy, one give away from the re-cast repros is that the top is cast in two pieces, if you look carefully from the back you can see a vertical line in the top casting. The repros I have and have seen are cast in one piece and dont have this line.
Had to go for a drink at the Blind Beggar after that purchase.:diablo: