Could the Thunder City aircraft fly in the UK ?

Interesting thread. I was under the impression that Lightnings weren’t allowed to fly in the UK because they were supersonic. I see now that it’s not that simple. I wonder if they’d be allowed here in Oz, hell, we got the space.:D

Ex 19, 23 and 74 Sqdns, Lightning Air Radar and later Nav Inst fitter. Don’t ask when, waaay too far back :rolleyes:

I believe the Fw can fly as it is certified/registered in an EU country, and the standards are supposed to be harmonised across the EU.

Nope not the case, that is only for aircraft that have been designed and tested to international civilian standards and are listed under the EASA approved aircraft…

Others oddballs such as Chipmunks, DC3, DC4, DC6, DC7 and Stearman are not covered under EASA but have remained on the UK BCAR’s and are maintained under the UK requirements. Oddly enough the DC3, DC4, DC6, DC7 were initially on the EASA register but have come off it and have gone back onto the National one.

The FW190 although a replica is built to the original Military design standards and as such has never been tested to the international design type standards (A megga expensive process ) so is operated on a UK CAA issued permit to fly as would any ex military Aircraft, or it would have been if they approve it. (Chippies and Steaarman fall into the above category as there was also Civilian models)
The french have approved the 190, but items like fuel tanks I believe have had to be replaced from the Stainless items to get that in place. Hence it is a National requirement, not an EASA one……..

Which means I now have to hold 2 licences to do my Job, an EASA one an a UK one……… though if working on permit Aircraft a licence is not neccesary, though under EASA Laa Laa land I can see that door closing in the not too distant future…

It all brings back to mind exactly what ‘CAA’ stands for – Campaign Against Aviation. What a pity that organisation (?) can’t employ some people in the know about military aircraft and then help to preserve our heritage.

Sorry, but to me, if an aircraft can fly safely whilst in uniform, then why not when wearing civies?

But then I suppose that nowadays you stand a good chance of upsetting the other dead-beats; you’ve got it in one – EASA (European Authority Strangling Aviation). :mad::mad:

And I used to have friends in the CAA. Not any longer now I guess. Never had any in that crowd across the channel, not want any.

Didn’t Keith Hartley fly Buccaneer XW986 from Kemble to Warton before its delivery to South Africa or was I dreaming? Not sure it was on the civil register but it was certainly privately owned.

Think this thread would give you the jist of it

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=901

One very memorable moment for me was standing at the end of Kembles runway on 29th March 2002, when XW986 made its first post-restoration flight over my head. It was still in the Raspberry Ripple colour scheme, but with ZU-NIP painted on the side i.e. registered in South Africa at the time. I believe it visited a few places in the UK before it headed south. It wasn’t allowed to display in the UK though.

Andy

XR724 flew on the civil register:diablo:

Didn’t Keith Hartley fly Buccaneer XW986 from Kemble to Warton before its delivery to South Africa or was I dreaming? Not sure it was on the civil register but it was certainly privately owned.

Think this thread would give you the jist of it

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=901

Stringbag -at least one of the Thunder City Buccaneers flew in the U.K on the U.K civil register for test flying prior to leaving U.K airspace.

The only way you’ll see an EE Lightning fly in the UK is with the MoD at the helm. The only way I can see this happening is as an evaluation aircraft with the ETPS, but the cost would be astronomical. BAe Defence Systems would need millions to even get a single example back in the air and HM Government isn’t going to pay the bill. The only way forward is a three way deal between the MoD/ETPS (end customer), BAe Defence Systems (supplier) and a wealthy benefactor (Funder). The funder must be one of those who wouldn’t mind if (a) he didn’t actually own the aircraft he was prepared to spend a small fortune on, nor (b) probably wouldn’t be allowed to fly. It ain’t going to happen…

I beleive the Fw can fly as it is certified/registered in an EU country, and the standards are supposed to be harmonised across the EU.

As for HAA’s Buccaneer, it’s more likely to fly under an MOD serial as a civil-operated military aircraft if it gets any contract work (like their Hunter F58s), neatly side-stepping the CAA – but I think the conditions of that don’t include airshow work.

Not sure you are correct about the Bucc. There is the one at Scampton that is waiting for

a) Ejector seat cartridges to be fitted

b) A military contract to pay for it

and its good to go. Very doubtful it will do any display flying though, simply because the owners want it to pay its way, they are a business after all.

Yep probably the same one, I believe there was an initial agreement from the CAA that it would be allowed to fly for delivery to where ever it was going, but that was it, unlike the Frightnings that went by boat.

I was stunned when the Shack went over me on delivery to the USA some years back and that they had allowed that, it was even cleared to come back for the wing work required, but would not have been to do anything else. Sadly costs kicked that into touch and she now is baking in the sun, all be it nice and dry 🙂

re;

Not sure you are correct about the Bucc. There is the one at Scampton that is waiting for

a) Ejector seat cartridges to be fitted

b) A military contract to pay for it

and its good to go. Very doubtful it will do any display flying though, simply because the owners want it to pay its way, they are a business after all.

HHA often have their a/c in the static at Waddington, so likely we will get too see the Bucc arrive next year?

They can’t fly in the UK because the air is different from SA and far too hard for aging jets like these.

The other problem is that officialdom can’t be shown up to be patently stupid, so, sorry, NO!:rolleyes:

G’day 😉

After buying the Thunder City Lightning DVD’s, how I wish they WERE allowed to fly here again!

No Buccaneer has ever flown on the UK civilian register, but as Nick says it is only a matter of time now…

No, it’s a complex aircraft with no manual reversion, that’s the main reason they had to freight the lightnings over to SA according to my ex CAA suveyor, they were not allowed to fly in UK airspace, even to depart….. Bucc maybe, was supposed to be one cleared to fly out a while ago, but pass as to what happened with it. But to come back and display, nope again. you would also need several VC10’s unless they stayed with it.

Not sure you are correct about the Bucc. There is the one at Scampton that is waiting for

a) Ejector seat cartridges to be fitted

b) A military contract to pay for it

and its good to go. Very doubtful it will do any display flying though, simply because the owners want it to pay its way, they are a business after all.

I was thinking about this after seeing the FW190 replica at Flying Legends. This aircraft type is not currently autherised to fly on the UK register but did fly here under its French registration.

So cost and logistics aside ( lets say a Lightning or Bucc came over by container, flew via various airbases, refueld from VC10 😉 ) would it be allowed ?

It is 1:17 so it is a time for dreaming:)

Ben

No, it’s a complex aircraft with no manual reversion, that’s the main reason they had to freight the lightnings over to SA according to my ex CAA suveyor, they were not allowed to fly in UK airspace, even to depart….. Bucc maybe, was supposed to be one cleared to fly out a while ago, but pass as to what happened with it. But to come back and display, nope again. you would also need several VC10’s unless they stayed with it.