Gun camera footage

Last time I checked I believe it’s possible but at an ungodly cost.

Usually you have to pre-book it, go and view it at then you can order sections/still from it in various formats.

Paging ‘Bob’ ‘The Camera Gun Catalogue’ 😉

That’s a Chardonnay you owe her then!

Yep, I believe she is partial to it.

Been put in contact with someone at the IWM by a very nice lady who frequents this forum on occasions 😉

That’s a Chardonnay you owe her then!

Thanks James

Been put in contact with someone at the IWM by a very nice lady who frequents this forum on occasions 😉

Ahhh, no loss there then, I’m more of a pint of ale man – unlike that grape libation, children have yet to be called “Arrogant *******” or “Theakston Old Peculiar”…

Ehhhh? Who turned the lights on? 😀

Back in your film spool, lad, it’s all over.

For the price of a pint of Chardonnay, I might add. 😀

Paging ‘Bob’ ‘The Camera Gun Catalogue’ 😉

Ehhhh? Who turned the lights on? 😀

😀 😀 😀

Sheesh.

A relative of mine taught a child of proto-Chav parents in the East End of London named Rubella. 😮

Off topic?

Camera gun footage 41 + 350 squadrons 23/24 April 1945

Hi Bob

That was quick – thanks very much.

I can confirm that Gaze – Coleman – Chalmers – Gray (along with Jolly and Kelly) – took part in an Armed Recco from Celle 18.25 – 19.55 on 23 April 1945.

(At 18.25 6 aircraft led by F/Lt Gaze were airborne on an armed recco in the Hamburg area. One locomotive, thirty covered trucks and 18 M.E.T. were damaged. Six M.E.T. were left in flames. The section landed at 19.55)

The first flight of 41 squadron (11.25 – 12.40) on 23 April rules out the 07.15 of Fisher for 23 April, and he did not fly on that day either!!

However, he did fly on 24 April in a section of 6 led by Peter Cowell (06.10 (or 06.45) – 07.45) – (F/Lt P Cowell was airborne with six aircraft at 06.45 on an armed recco in the Lubeck – Wizmar – Parchim area. One locomotive was damaged east of Lubeck and further south, two more locomotives were damaged. The section landed at 07.45).

The section was Cowell, Kelly, Bodtker, Wheatley, Fisher and Remez – and the 07.15 time span fits, but whether for the one locomotive east of Lubeck or the two further south we have no idea!! 🙁

However, this still gives us a problem with regard to film 12286.

Firstly, something which doesn’t help – the 41 squadron ORB states 06.45 – 07.45 and the Form 541 states 06.10 – 07.45 for the same operation!!

Thus is it Muls, incorrectly attributed to 41 Squadron who, according to the 350 (Belgian) Squadron ORB, was part of a section (06.00 – 07.15) who destroyed 6 trains and 120 wagons, or one of the others of Cowell’s section?

The 07.15 strike of Fisher doesn’t help as the 06.30 time possibly fits for both squadrons – if we knew the time of the first 41 strike east of Lubeck we would have a good idea if it was still Muls, or one of the others in Cowells section!! :confused:

Whoever it is the date is certainly 24 April and not 23 April – it was a hectic time for 125 Wing, for all ground sections as well as the pilots, so I would not be too surprised to find dates/names/squadrons incorrectly attributed in a few cases.

Enjoy your holiday when you finally get away!! 🙂

cheers

Allan

Combat Film No 12278. Flight Lieutenant Gaze of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 1900, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target.
Combat Film No 12279. Pilot Officer Coleman of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 1900, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target Vehicle.
Combat Film No 12280. Warrant Officer Chalmers of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 1915, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target Vehicle.
Combat Film No 12281. Flying Officer Gray of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 1915, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target Train and Vehicle.
Combat Film No 12286. Flight Lieutenant Muls of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 0630, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target Train.
Combat Film No 12289. Flight Lieutenant Fisher of 41 Squadron, 23/4/1945, 0715, flying Spitfire. Target: Ground Target.

The list shows the data for the other flights by 41 Sqdn on the 23/4/45 (quoted above) – the fact it appears to be out of chronological order isn’t unusual. Often film will be out of ‘sync’ – I guess it was added to the reels of film as and when the photography sections got it.

If the original entry was erroneous there is no real way of checking – we just have reels of film with the film number/date/time/pilot/squadron/aircraft/target recorded on a few frames prior to the actual footage. If the squadron ORB shows Muls as flying with 350 I’d guess that’s correct.
I can only surmise that if the Muls clip in question arrived along with 41 Sqdn film for ‘processing’ and was all being dealt with under the umbrella of 125 Wing it might have got mixed up.

The details of how these films were dealt with at the time is a bit hazy – the number of sorties flown and films returned for developing/interpreting must have meant the section responsible was pretty busy, so mistakes were probably made…

Robert Muls – 23 /24 April 1945

Hi Bob

Thanks for such a prompt response – 06.30 would be perfect as it would fit right into the time span for the patrol (06.00 – 07.15), it is just the date doesn’t fit, and of course Muls was a member of 350 (Belgian) Squadron and not 41 Squadron – both were part of 125 Wing operating Spitfire XIV’s from B.118 Celle in Germany – so it’s interesting to surmise who filled out the original ‘data’ card.

When you return from holiday I would be grateful if you can advise who is on the 07.15 film, and also who is named on the 19.00 – 1945 films so that I can cross reference those with the appropriate squadron records as I hold copies of the Forms 540 & 541 for both squadrons.

Enjoy your holiday. 🙂

cheers

Allan

Allan,
The information for each clip is pretty basic and in recording this information, several mistakes have been spotted in the original ‘data’ card which comes before each clip. Errors in spelling a pilot’s name is the most common along with fields left blank (time or date, rank) and it may be that 0630 was entered originally by mistake? Would 1830hrs have fitted your question?

The fact that the next film is timed at 0715hrs but the previous clips are timed at 1900 – 1945hrs might suggest the original data cards were filled out incorrectly. The truth may never be known as this is the only data for each clip that is viewed.

I’m off on holiday so won’t be back at the project until second half of August but I’ll double check the info I recorded.

Query on Robert Muls – Film No. 12286 23 April 1945

The Film and Video Archive Dept of the IWM has a lot of RAF WWII gun camera film which was given to the IWM by the RAF. I know because I have spent the last two and a half years cataloguing it.
While not viewable on line (yet) it can be searched for pilots, squadrons etc – go to the IWM Collections online webpage to search.

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryFilm.php

Hi Bob

A very interesting list of camera gun footage – however, can I query Robert Muls – shown, in error, as 41 squadron – for 06.30 23 April 1945 – my research (125 Wing ORB, 41 and 350 Squadron Forms 540 & 541) show the following:

From the 41 squadron Form 541 it does not show 41 squadron operating before 11.35 a.m., this is confirmed by the 41 ORB stating that four aircraft took off at 11.35!!

The 125 Wing ORB for 23 April states that 350 were first off at 06.46, and they tried an armed recce at 07.51 but the weather was duff – 41 flying later

The 350 541 shows Robert Muls as operating on 23 April – but between 18.40 and 20.15 in an armed recce Wismar – Hamburg – “Roberto” Muls is also shown operating on 22 and 24 April in M SM825 (a superb 541 with individual codes and full serials!!)

However, and this could be it – but on 24 April – F/Lt Muls was operating on an Armed Recce Pritzwalk – Rostock between 06.00 – 07.15 with 5 others of 350 squadron – “The first team of the day F/Lt Muls, F/Sgt Kicq, F/O Doncq and F/O Van Eeckhoudt (the form 541 shows 6 – Muls, Leva, Boels, Doncq, Van Eeckhoudt and Kicq!!) had a wonderful score in the Pritzwalk area. In 15 minutes they had used all their ammunition sharing the destruction of 6 trains with 120 wagons. This successful operation was followed by a Wing sweep in which we met for the first time Yaks and Stormovicks aeroplanes (These two facts “Jamming of the railway system South West of Pritzwalk and the meeting of British and Russian air patrols were reported in a B.B.C. broadcast)…..” – the piece in brackets is exactly as written in the 350 ORB, and so is the spelling “Stormovicks”.

So can you confirm that film 12286 is Robert Muls, but of 350 (Belgian) Squadron, not 41 Squadron, taken at 06.30 on 24 April 1945?

http://www.350sqn.be/biography/Muls%20Roberto.htm

cheers

Allan

Thanks again Bob. Found some Mosquito stuff in there which referred to incidents I’d not previously known about.

Interesting to see how much USAAF stuff there is too.

Still some more to catalogue….

As mentioned here it does throw up some interesting clips…

Thanks for the link Bob.

Is the cataloguing complete now, or is there more to come?

The Film and Video Archive Dept of the IWM has a lot of RAF WWII gun camera film which was given to the IWM by the RAF. I know because I have spent the last two and a half years cataloguing it.
While not viewable on line (yet) it can be searched for pilots, squadrons etc – go to the IWM Collections online webpage to search.

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryFilm.php

…this one is called F-127 and the other is F-125, where are the rest!

It is likely that most of it was simply thrown away…..after all who’d be interested in it? :rolleyes:

Probably just coincidence that the gun-camera footage of a later well known personality survived.