Everything published on the subject – or at least that which I have seen – indicates that there was only one Aerogypt (G-AFFG) which was progressively modified, between 1938 and 1943, as the marks I, II, III and IV.
In its mark I form the Aerogypt had a hinged roof that acted as a landing flap. That distinctive hinged roof did not feature in the mark II, III and IV forms. In its mark III and IV forms end plate fins were added to the tail planes. In 1946, in mark IV form, it suffered a landing accident at Northolt and was then damaged beyond repair when dropped by a salvage crane. It ended its days as a hen house in the garden of a house adjacent to White Waltham Aerodrome (although one source says that it was adjacent to Woodley Aerodrome). Apparently it remained there until the late 1960s.
I have seen two photos of the Aerogypt in its “hen house days”. These are accessible online at http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1176580 and http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960-2834. In these photographs only the rear fuselage, aft of the cabin door, is extant. However, curiously, the hinged roof/landing flap is in place and the end plate fins seem to be absent.
Could it have been that the hinged roof/landing flap was retained by the Saleh Helmy after the mark II modification; that the forward fuselage was destroyed when the aeroplane was dropped by the salvage crane; and that, presumably after removal of the two Continental A65 engines, the whole Aerogypt package was disposed of to the owner of the house where the fuselage became a hen house? That seems improbable. But even if that occurred, who would bother to re-instate the hinged roof/landing flap and remove the end plate fins when the fuselage was only to be used to house chickens? That leads me to wonder – and this is a theory for which I have no evidence whatsoever – whether there may have been more than one Aerogypt (or Aerogypt fuselage); that the hen house was the original mark I; and that the mark II/III/IV, which crashed at Northolt, was a different aeroplane albeit carrying the same registration marks. The only possible support for this theory is in a letter to ‘Flight’, after the 1946 accident and damage, in which Saleh Helmy says that other Aerogypts are under construction – although if that wasn’t true, he wouldn’t have been the first or last maverick designer/constructor, having lost his sole aeroplane in a crash, to make such an assertion!
If anyone can offer an explanation for the re-instatement of the hinged roof/landing flap and the removal of the end plate fins in the hen house photographs or knows more about the history of the mark II/III/IV modifications to the Aerogypt, I’d be very grateful for their input. Does anyone know in whose garden was the Aerogypt hen house? Could it have been that of Saleh Helmy? The mark IV modification was undertaken at White Waltham although G-INFO gives a London SW1 address for his company, Aerogypt High Speed Development Co. Ltd., the owner of the Aerogypt at the time of its crash. And if the hen house Aerogypt was not the mark IV that crashed at Northolt, then what became of that?
I am aware that, recently, Saleh Helmy’s papers, relating to the Aerogypt, were sold on eBay. I was unsuccessful in my bids for them but they may have been bought by other members of this Forum. Perhaps they might shed a little light upon this possible conundrum?
By: l.garey - 26th November 2010 at 05:52
Photobucket seems to work now.
As I said in my previous post:
I presume you have seen the two photos on page 250 of Vol 3 of AJ Jackson’s British Civil Aircraft (1960). They show the Aerogypt in its Mark I version, giving the c/n as 3 (why 3, I wonder). The second photo is of the Mark IV, which seems to have the same fuselage, judging only from the paintwork, minus the funny roof, but with the end plates. However, the fin colour scheme is different, in that the dark stripe is absent. This might uphold Avion’s surmise on his previous thread that the fuselage might have changed between Marks III and IV.
In the abpic photo of the hen house (giving c/n 01), the fin does not have the dark stripe, so suggests it must be the Mark IV. The endplates might simply be broken off.
Laurence
By: l.garey - 25th November 2010 at 10:50
I just copied this to Photobucket, but cannot get it to upload. Will try again later.
Laurence
By: davecurnock - 25th November 2010 at 09:51
Many thanks, laurence – PM sent.
By: l.garey - 25th November 2010 at 06:05
I can scan that page of British Civil Aircraft if it would be useful. I presume that is OK for personal, private use.
Laurence
By: davecurnock - 24th November 2010 at 12:15
I do it all the time ‘a a’ – that way you get to know a little about a lot, rather than vice-versa.
Could also mean my concentration level is showing my age!:D
By: avion ancien - 23rd November 2010 at 20:53
That’s the delight of leaving the main channel and drifting off onto a backwater!
By: davecurnock - 23rd November 2010 at 20:18
Laurence, many thanks.
I haven’t seen the images you mentioned but I’ll have a look when I can get hold of a copy of that book. I only got on to this subject as a result of ‘subject drift’ from another forum (I was actually looking at the history of the Douglas motor-cycle and followed a link about the use of the Douglas company’s engines in aircraft).
By: l.garey - 23rd November 2010 at 17:13
I presume you have seen the two photos on page 250 of Vol 3 of AJ Jackson’s British Civil Aircraft (1960). They show the Aerogypt in its Mark I version, giving the c/n as 3 (why 3, I wonder). The second photo is of the Mark IV, which seems to have the same fuselage, judging only from the paintwork, minus the funny roof, but with the end plates. However, the fin colour scheme is different, in that the dark stripe is absent. This might uphold Avion’s surmise on his previous thread that the fuselage might have changed between Marks III and IV.
In the abpic photo of the hen house (giving c/n 01), the fin does not have the dark stripe, so suggests it must be the Mark IV. The endplates might simply be broken off.
Laurence
By: davecurnock - 23rd November 2010 at 16:53
Apologies for starting the new thread – did a search but probably incorrectly!
Thanks for your helpful response ‘a a’.
By: avion ancien - 23rd November 2010 at 16:22
See http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92132&highlight=helmy+aerogypt and on the subject of the subject of the patent Helmy Flap, the essay at pp 380-382 of ‘British Light Aeroplanes’ by Arthur Ord-Hume makes for very interesting reading
By: avion ancien - 7th July 2009 at 20:38
Thanks Steve, you’re an historical sat nav! However I’ll have to go back to the Google Earth satellite image because I don’t remember the narrow lane appearing on the last view at which I looked. But then, we are 40 or more years on and so I may be better off looking at a contemporary large scale OS map. However it certainly seems that the fuselage of G-AFFG was in the garden of a house south of the railway, which suggests that it was not Barn House. But was that the only post war residence of Saleh Helmy? Maybe this is not the end of the story!
By: Steve Bond - 7th July 2009 at 15:07
Turn off the Maidenhead road heading south towrads White Waltham. Immediately after you pass under the railway bridge, turn right up a very narrow lane which eventually goes back over the railway line via a footbridge (this was a favourite spot for photographing landing aeroplanes). the Aerogypt was in a garden, almost hidden by a hedge, on the right hand side, not long before you reached the bridge.
By: avion ancien - 7th July 2009 at 06:30
Many thanks, Anon, for your further input.
Apologies for the forename error. I couldn’t remember it and an exhaustive search of the web only gave me the initial! It was the Arthur Ord-Hume magnum opus that first revealed my error – but I never got round to editing my original post and each subsequent one in which I repeated the error.
I’d be happy, Anon, to take a look at scans of the Helmy papers and offer an enthusiastic opinion (it would be immodest of me to pitch my opinions at any higher level) on what they reveal and how they might be used. If you’re interested, send me a PM.
AA
By: Arabella-Cox - 7th July 2009 at 00:08
Three-view of Aerogypt
I have seen some details (many years ago) in a reference publication, including three-views of the Aerogypt but I cannot recall which book it was. It may have been British Light Aircraft or some such similar publication.
It wasn’t a particularly attractive aeroplane.
Anon.
By: Arabella-Cox - 7th July 2009 at 00:04
Helmy papers
I’ve found them.
A quick scan through shows several addresses in the area of White Waltham aerodrome between 1934 and 1940. It could be one of these.
I had written an extended post on the details contained in the papers but my internet conn dumped and I lost it. I then lost heart to do it all again but give me time to calm down a bit and I’ll repeat the exercise in the next day or two.
Helmy’s first name was Saleh, not Sydney. He was of Egyptian parentage.
I’d be happy to scan the letters and docs and forward them to someone who would like to scrutinise them more closely. There’s some interesting stuff in there.
Anon.
By: avion ancien - 6th July 2009 at 21:55
Mike did you get the scans ….perhaps in your spam folder??
C.
Thanks, Chris, I do have them now. Sorry for omitting to inform you of the change of e-mail address!
I’m really anxious to know more precisely where was the house in whose garden the fuselage of G-AFFG languished as a hen house, especially whether it was north or south of the railway line adjoining White Waltham aerodrome. So Steve Bond and Newforest, come in please! Similarly, if you’ve found the Helmy papers, please post again, Anon!
Going on, I’ve failed to find any three view images or head on photos of the Aerogypt. Does anyone have or know of the whereabouts of these – if they exist.
By: chumpy - 5th July 2009 at 23:23
Mike did you get the scans ….perhaps in your spam folder??
C.
By: avion ancien - 5th July 2009 at 22:45
Ah well, another one bites the dust!
By: avion ancien - 4th July 2009 at 11:45
Having consulted the Google satellite image, Breadcroft Lane is very close to White Waltham Aerodrome. However Barn House does not adjoin the aerodrome. It is on the section of Breadcroft Lane north of the railway, closer to the junction with Cherry Garden Lane. South of the railway, the south-west side of Breadcroft Lane abuts the aerodrome – but Google Earth shows no houses or gardens here. Breadcroft Road looks a better bet. The gardens of the houses on the west side of this road back on to the aerodrome. So unless the accounts of the fuselage of G-AFFG being in a garden adjacent to White Waltham Aerodrome are geographically imprecise, it doesn’t look as if it was in the garden of the Helmy family home. Sadly it doesn’t look as if this can be pursued further unless someone who saw the fuselage of G-AFFG in the 1950s or 1960s can help by saying more precisely where it was – at least whether it was in Breadcroft Lane or Breadcroft Road and, if the former, whether the garden in issue was south or north of the railway line.
By: chumpy - 1st July 2009 at 21:20
Sorry to be so nasty….the postcode for Barn House looks to be SL6 3QF should you wish to take a look via G.E. or Multimap etc. I had a quick fly-by no sign of any chickens.
In the meantime, work continues to reinforce my scanner extra pit-props required!
Chumpy.
Sign In
June 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm