Aircraft demolition charge

In the Loading and C. G tables in later mark spitfire APs is reference to

an Incendiary bomb carried in the cockpit.

I recall seeing clips for such a device on the stbd cockpit wall in some of the

later Mk APs as well.

No, you are not talking tosh!

I would say that has to be the entry hole. No doubt in my mind that this is a 20mm explosion in the radio bay.

The radio would have been a TR9D (10D/10470) with a R1120 Receiver and a T1119 Transmitter if I remember correctly.

The story about this damage being caused by a self-destruct charge started, I think, in Frank Mason’s “Battle Over Britain” where this photo was thus captioned.

I have never been convinced that this shows the result of a destructor charge going off. The aeroplane was a 234 Squadron Spitfire lost on 15 August 1940 having forced-landed after being hit and damaged way out in the Channel. One for Mark12, perhaps, but I didn’t think the destructor charges were fitted until much later on? Even in 1941, when “Buck” Casson was shot down in France, he destroyed his aeroplane with a “PORTFIRE” which set fire to the petrol swilling around in the cockpit. A Portfire is a case of strong paper filled with a composition of niter, sulphur, and mealed powder, – used principally to ignite a primer or as an incendiary material in shells. It was an incendiary device pure and simple, not an explosive charge.

The damage shown in this picture of AZ-H could well be the result of one or two HE 20mm rounds exploding inside the fuselage. There are clear “frag” marks probably from shell splinters and I am not sure we would be seeing these marks if the damage was caused by an explosive destructor device. In any case, would there have been any need to “destruct” a TR9D radio? IFF was not then fitted so far as I know? If Spitfires that were routinely operational over France in mid 1941 did not yet have destructor charges it seems to me unlikely that one that was operational for the home defence of the UK in 1940 would have such a device fitted. I have certainly never seen any evidence of such devices in more than a good few 1940 Spitfire and Hurricane wrecks I have seen across the years.

Thanks guys,
It’s why I like this forum!

I had a search through my archives and found this.

Not sure if it is an entry wound, never noticed it before. Would have been a good deflection shot if it was ( might be talking more tosh ) This is part of a larger photo and is at it’s max enlargement.

Some time ago, I read that the 1940-era German cannon rounds tended to explode on impact, rather than penetrating, then exploding. According to the Spitfire V manual, the IFF set was known as the A.R.I.5000, but I’ve found no reference to that no., in the list of mods, although an “R.3002 w/t equipment” is listed as being introduced from 28-12-40, and I don’t know what that was. In Crecy’s reprint of the Spitfire II Pilot’s Notes, the firing buttons, for the IFF destructor charge, do not appear.
Edgar

The fragmentation looks very similar to a 20mm HE round hit.Should there be an entry hole on the other side of the fuse?

This is Spitfire N3277 after force landing in northern France. The pilot had used the destructor charge in this aircraft

I have never been convinced that this shows the result of a destructor charge going off. The aeroplane was a 234 Squadron Spitfire lost on 15 August 1940 having forced-landed after being hit and damaged way out in the Channel. One for Mark12, perhaps, but I didn’t think the destructor charges were fitted until much later on? Even in 1941, when “Buck” Casson was shot down in France, he destroyed his aeroplane with a “PORTFIRE” which set fire to the petrol swilling around in the cockpit. A Portfire is a case of strong paper filled with a composition of niter, sulphur, and mealed powder, – used principally to ignite a primer or as an incendiary material in shells. It was an incendiary device pure and simple, not an explosive charge.

The damage shown in this picture of AZ-H could well be the result of one or two HE 20mm rounds exploding inside the fuselage. There are clear “frag” marks probably from shell splinters and I am not sure we would be seeing these marks if the damage was caused by an explosive destructor device. In any case, would there have been any need to “destruct” a TR9D radio? IFF was not then fitted so far as I know? If Spitfires that were routinely operational over France in mid 1941 did not yet have destructor charges it seems to me unlikely that one that was operational for the home defence of the UK in 1940 would have such a device fitted. I have certainly never seen any evidence of such devices in more than a good few 1940 Spitfire and Hurricane wrecks I have seen across the years.

The Do 335 that is at the NASM’s Udvar-Hazy Center has an interesting story regarding demolition charges. After the war it was tested for a few years and then pretty much forgotten. It was eventually donated to the NASM and went to Silver Hill for storage. In the mid 1970s it was sent back to Dornier in Germany for a complete restoration. They discovered the demolition charges installed when it was built in April 1945 were still there and live. The charges were there to blow off the tail and rear prop in case of an emergency where the pilot might need to bail out, not to prevent capture by the enemy.

GEE and detonators

somewhere in collection i have a gee unit with a painted label on it warning to remove detonators before servicing …i ll dig it out and photo it

The PR11 I worked on for Wright Patt had a thermite grenade on the right side of the cockpit.

The Canberra PR9 had a destructor charge mounting on the inside of the ground power access hatch in the 60/70’s never ever saw one fitted.

Saw a line drawing a couple of days ago of a Vulcan with one of the number “destructor charge switch”. was forward, just aft of the radome on the right hand side (i think)

The difference, of course, was that the charge in the Spitfire, etc., wasn’t designed to destroy the airframe, solely the IFF transmitter.
Edgar

Quite right, the Germans had N3277 flying in a matter of a few weeks.

Some Meteors had a small access panel marked ‘Destructor’ (or similar) on the port side of the fuselage above the retractable step – never saw what was inside though!

The difference, of course, was that the charge in the Spitfire, etc., wasn’t designed to destroy the airframe, solely the IFF transmitter.
Edgar

This is Spitfire N3277 after force landing in northern France. The pilot had used the destructor charge in this aircraft

Some razorback P51’s had what was basically a standard hand grenade bolted to the rear cockpit bulkhead. Most pilots understandably weren’t too keen on flying with a grenade behind thier head, so it was usually removed. I believe Kermit Weeks’ P51C “Ina the Macon Belle” has one in place, although it’s a dummy ofcourse!

Spitfires had half a stick of TNT on the IFF radio set to demolish it upon crash landing.If you look in the cockpit you can see a cover with “WARNING” on it.That is the cover for the buttons.

I know Me110`s carried a couple of incendiaries that were set off after both the crew were safe.

I’ve read of dowed Allied pilots using a pistol to shoot into the petrol tanks to set fire to the aircraft. I don’t know if it was an ordinary pistol.

Garry