Coloured pilots – in the RAF?

To be clear, my comment above about a spammer refers to a post I reported today (that the administrators just removed) and not to the one by “hairy” from way back in 2009. As we still don’t have our posts numbered it is not easy to be sure what we are referring to. 

I also took the opportunity to point out to feedback@key.aero that we still don’t have our Forum back to its old form.

Laurence

Blatant advertising in the post above.

“Key Aero” please sort it out. Thanks

Laurence

Not Afro-Carribean but in the spirit of the thread.

FLT LT JH “JIMMY” WETERE DFC

Squadron Leader da Souza (image) was an Indian pilot on 355 Squadron and was flying Liberator KH210 in which James Nicolson VC was lost on 1 May 1945.

That was certainly something new for me. I tried looking him up and the following came up

CWGC http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1814405

http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=printer_format&om=9625&forum=DCForumID6

The name does sound Goan , but his training pattern and other details seem to indicate he was from Canada – Was he of Indian lineage settled in UK and sent for training to Canada? .

The RAF Commands link mentions an article by you – any chance of sharing that?

Also – havent seen this link here

http://www.wewerethere.defencedynamics.mod.uk/index.html

I remember seeing something when the film came out, stating that the writers had simply added the “token black guy” in as Fokker fodder! Of course, this was far from the truth (and he survives!).

To an extent I suppose he was the “token black guy”. The shame is that it purported to represent Bullard, although did a huge dis-service to the fascinating story that actually lies behind Bullard. Even forgetting that Bullard was black, the story that lies behind the character is extraordinary by any standards.

There is an account from Flight Lieutenant William Strachan who was a black Jamaican who served with 99 Squadron in ‘Forgotten Voices of the Blitz and the Battle of Britain’. Unfortunately it deals mainly with his travel to Britain and ends with his transfer to 4 Elementary Flying Training School. The book doesn’t actually say that he served as a pilot with 99 Squadron so it would be interesting to know more.

The same book also mentions Pilot Officer Mahinder Singh Pujji who served as a pilot with 43 Squadron.

An interesting WW1 case (slightly off thread!) was that of Eugene Bullard, a black American who served first with the French Foreign Legion then trained as a fighter pilot and served with the French airforce where his aircraft was adorned with the slogan “All Blood Runs Red”. When the USA entered the war he transferred to the US forces but was discriminated against, naturally. The view was that a “negro” could certainly not be an officer, let alone fly an aeroplane! The black actor in that dreadful film “Fly Boys” was presumably an attempt to portray Bullard – badly!

I remember seeing something when the film came out, stating that the writers had simply added the “token black guy” in as Fokker fodder! Of course, this was far from the truth (and he survives!).

An interesting WW1 case (slightly off thread!) was that of Eugene Bullard, a black American who served first with the French Foreign Legion then trained as a fighter pilot and served with the French airforce where his aircraft was adorned with the slogan “All Blood Runs Red”. When the USA entered the war he transferred to the US forces but was discriminated against, naturally. The view was that a “negro” could certainly not be an officer, let alone fly an aeroplane! The black actor in that dreadful film “Fly Boys” was presumably an attempt to portray Bullard – badly!

Squadron Leader da Souza (image) was an Indian pilot on 355 Squadron and was flying Liberator KH210 in which James Nicolson VC was lost on 1 May 1945.

JDK is quite right about Jamaicans not necessarily being black Jamaicans. A case in point being James Alister McBride of 161 Squadron killed on 17 Dec 1943. He is shown as a Trinidadian, and I have recently read somewhere that he was a black Trinidadian which is nonsense.

Further confusion/controversy exists over the “Israeli” (Goodman) said in some sources to have participated in the Battle of Britain – including the roll at end of the film Battle of Britain. A little difficult since Israel did not even exist then, anyway!

Diversity in the RAF display

Came across this on the RAF Museum website

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/news/article.cfm?news_id=126

Squadron Leader Puji says he was discriminated against, but positively!

The one Jamaican in …

Don’t forget that ‘Jamaican’ in this context does not necessarily mean black. Quite a few Jamaicans in the British forces were white.

IIRC there was one Jamaican listed as flying in the Battle of Britain…..I don’t know if it’s the same guy that appears in that well known photo of the clutch of pilots in winter flying gear standing with Malan…??

That was Flt Sgt Vincent Bunting of Jamaica in that photo, he flew with 611 Squadron in 1943.

The one Jamaican in the Battle of Britain was P/O Capstick, 236 Squadron

re;

The end credits of “Battle of Britain” credit the number of commonwealth and other pilots who were lost, makes you realise just what an effort was made. I remember a discussion as to whether there should be a memorial to commonwealth pilots, and some idiot said why cant they stick it in their own country!

Mark12

Your PMs inbox is full! Could you please make some room in it. I wish to send you a PM.

CS

…and?

There was a day in the early ’90’s when we had a special guest come around to look at the Lanc. We were advised that he was the only coloured pilot ever to fly Lanc’s during WWII. The gentleman in question was in very high spirits, but was unfortunately confined to a wheel chair, and therefore, unable to clamber up through the fuselage. No problem as a lift platform was prepositioned, and up he went to view the ‘office’ through the P1 window.

Apparently he thoroughly enjoyed his day, and many of us had our eyes opened by this gentleman’s charm and good humour.

With the passage of time, I have forgotten this hero’s name, but now wonder if it was Billy Strachen?

camlobe

re

Cant remember which book it was, but apparantly 44 (Rhodesia) sqdn pilots used to chisel the Kings crown off their cap badges. They were against fascism but not in favour of the Empire.

how true this is, i’m not sure. Anyone?

Daz–

Thanks for starting this fascinating thread on a subject I’ve wondered about for a long time…especially since seeing the 1995 HBO Tuskegee film with its apparent BoB veteran, Lt. Glenn, played by Courtney Vance…

I’d known there were some BCATP instructors who were black, and knew of at least a couple bomber aircrew, but had never been sure until now that there had been any such fighter pilots serving with the Commonwealth. In fact, that had been one of my main quibbles with the HBO movie: I’d been quite sure no real “Lt. Glenn” would have got onto fighters via the RCAF, and that despite that detail in the film, we Canucks, who can sometimes be smug about these things, had nothing to be smug about there! I’m delighted to be proven one hundred percent wrong.

Does raise the logical followup question about the fictional Lt. Glenn, though: If he simply took a train across the 49th parallel and joined the RCAF, ending up on Spits, why, in real life, wasn’t there a veritable tide of these gentlemen heading North…?

S.

Scan of an old snapshot from my collection….At the left Jim Tallala, Spitfire pilot with 234 Sqn…anyone know details of his wartime career?

Chumpy.

Mark12

Your PMs inbox is full! Could you please make some room in it. I wish to send you a PM.

CS

The Imperial War Museum, Lambeth, has ‘From War to Windrush’ on show at the moment:

http://london.iwm.org.uk/server/show/conEvent.2377

“To mark the sixtieth anniversary of the arrival of the MV Empire Windrush in Britain in 1948, this exhibition will tell the personal stories of the involvement of Black men and women from the West Indies and Britain in the First and Second World Wars.”

The black contribution to Britain’s freedom is often underestimated.

Excellent stuff, guys.

I’m not sure the BNP would appreciate the irony, somehow! :diablo: