Swordfish Wreck – Glen Callater

As Nick said we have attempted to identify this wreck through records at the National Archives where sadly FAA records are extremely sparse.

I would presume that there was at least one fatality in the crash at Glen Callater given the point of impact is a very steep slope.

Another approach I took was to check the CWGC registers for the cemeteries around local airfields to account for FAA RN casualties. The name(s) are probably on the list somewhere.

Anyway….back to the history of the Swordfish. Presumably we have to draw a blank?

Fools rush in where angels etc…! Like you Andy and others (if I may be familiar) I was interested in the provenance of the Swordfish, living as I do in an area of Scotland that had in wartime a preponderance of Royal Naval air stations. I have absolutely no interest or intention of scavenging from old wreck sites,(indeed I never even considered the aspect of the crash involving loss of life, believing as I do that there were no fatalities involved in this incident) but I have had a life-time (thus far!) interest in the history of men and machines from the wartime era and since, whilst we still had a sizeable fixed-wing assortment of aircraft. (Indeed as a youngster I can remember Barracudas being towed behind RN tractors from far-flung dispersals outside of the airfield along public roads to my local air station. Would that I had access to a camera then!) So as a grumpy ole git, I was merely huffy that someone might have had a serial that would have pinned this Swordfish ID down, and was not going to divulge it, but I was wrong. My apologies therefore,where due, but I would never say never, some deeper research might yet find a serial. We can but hope…. Brian S.:o

Anyway….back to the history of the Swordfish. Presumably we have to draw a blank?

Hi Andy – sorry about hijacking the thread, but the comments seemed pertinent to the previous post.

I suspect you are right re the permit, as without any documentary proof, a permit could not be issued under the current rules. A P-38 collision site near me has a similar problem, as although the ID of both aircraft is known, there are no Incident reports available and thus no means of proving which one is which! I understand a permit for one was turned down on these grounds a while ago.

However whilst working on my next book, I have been trying to tie up a lot of loose ends and this collision came under scrutiny. A thorough survey of the surface wreckage at both sites, following a stroke of good luck when Rich Allenby spotted some unusual lettering whilst visiting one of the sites. We have now managed to find definite evidence at each site to confirm the ids. One of my co-authors also looked out for any leads on the Glen Callater Swordfish whilst trawling through many records at the PRO and as you say “drew a blank” – For Now! :diablo:

Actually, with all due respect, I was merely trying to get some identification on the wreck (date/serial no/crew etc) when I started this thread. That is my only interest here.

Whilst I agree that the comments posted within Nick Wotherspoon’s link are unfortunate I was not trying to get into that debate here. Neither do I have an interest in recovering said wreckage. However, it is worth mentioning that I am since aware from another forum member that he had some while ago applied to get a licence to recover the Glen Callater Swordfish but this was declined on the basis, presumably, that human remains or ordnance might well be on board. Clearly, such a possibility is nonsense in this particular case but I suspect the real reason that in the absence of the historical details on this crash (that are hampering us now!) then the MOD declined to issue a licence “just in case”.

Anyway….back to the history of the Swordfish. Presumably we have to draw a blank?

Their most used tactic was to claim all sites were war graves.

Don’t want to start a discussion on the rights and wrongs of that argument – Those of us experienced in this field know the facts of the matter and all those in this category that I have met and spoken to, treat those few sites where this is the case with the respect they deserve.

However there are still those who are trying to perpetuate this myth and use it for their own purposes – the ill-informed and opinionated rants on this “Blog” will no doubt be familiar to a few on here, but this recent offering borders on the offensive 😡 and to those mentioned is probably libellous?

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 ‘C’ Charlie

My records reveal that parts were recovered for the Fleet air arm museum.

The whole of the Central highlands of Scotland were pillaged by scrap dealers and it was a race against those salvagers of metal that the early museum teams were trying to win.

The situation was made more difficult when two individuals stirred up a lot of emotion which led to some official recoveries being stopped while the scrap dealers carried on regardless. Eg Whitley in Loch Enoch. Their most used tactic was to claim all sites were war graves.

Swordfish Wreck – Glen Callater

This thread seems to have grounded on some rocky (Highland) outcrop- like the unfortunate Swordfish did. Is there any chance of further facts coming to light or is there some information known , but for some reason not to be shared generally?
Hardly in the spirit of the forum IMHO: could it be that there are some ‘oldies’ not too happy sharing with the Johnny-come-lately members who venture to contribute something to the fray? :confused: Come on guys, straighten up and fly right, or loosen up, whatever ! 🙂

Andy

I have a bit of history with this swordfish. Any chnace you can PM me your number – your inbox was full when I last looked :p

Thank you Brian!

The wreck was certainly known/discovered well before 1976. My pictures were 1972 and I was far from being the first “enthusiast” to visit it. Indeed, my visit was because I had been told about it.

It will be interesting to see if any more information turns up.

Thank you for that Brian!

Ray Sturtivant’s book doesn’t happen to give a date for the loss, does it?

Many many thanks.

BTW, the wreck is somewhat more depleted now than it was in the 1970’s!

You’re very welcome : sadly no more info on the date. I think some more probing is required here. If there had been resulting fatalities presumably much more information would have been on record, whereas a crash landing with no injuries or crew loss might have just involved leaving the bulk of the remains after the necessary salvage and removal of ordnance etc. and a sometimes cursory attempt to bury some parts where they were ,in view of the inaccessability of the terrain, as indeed most of these high ground wrecks were. I can’t imagine the aircraft lay undiscovered or otherwise unknown for over thirty years however.
[ Much of Ray’s work was hampered by huge gaps in Naval records and he did a marvellous job in compilation of the information is his various books with these limitations], but I seem to recall (and I cannot remember the source) of a Swordfish crash in this area where a shepherd found the aircraft after the event. It may not have been this one; there were unfortunately many, Swordfish and other types) And yes, the wild places don’t seem so remote nowadays, and are far more accessible for the removal of many artifacts from these sites : it seems only the most remote high peaks still keep their sad trophies. We’ll see what else we can find in the various records on this one. Brian

Thank you for that Brian!

Ray Sturtivant’s book doesn’t happen to give a date for the loss, does it?

Many many thanks.

BTW, the wreck is somewhat more depleted now than it was in the 1970’s!
The quality is TERRIBLE but here is how it looked on 6 July 1972. Note both wings, wing-tip with hand hold and engine and prop beyond.

This link will lead to some photos of the Swordfish http://www.scotcrash.homecall.co.uk/index.htm ,
and from Ray Sturtivant’s Fleet Air Arm A/C 1939-45 is listed as L9730 ex-786 Squadron Crail. (H.M.S. Jackdaw).
Glen Callater (followed in brackets in the book with [Glen Prosin] ) is in reality some way from Glen Prosen and lies to the west of Lochnagar.This doesn’t add much to confirming the identity however, but tidies up a very minor geographical inaccuracy. Regards, Brian S.

Thank you for that!

L9730 it may well be, although I am unable to find anything (yet) on the loss of that aeroplane.

My curiousity was sparked when I came across some rather poor photos I took in about 1972. It was much more complete then. Engine with three bladed prop – blades having yellow tips still! Complete (ish) upper and lower wings – both laying atop each other.

Just wondered what the story was. Thanks for your help chaps!

Hi Gents,

“Wreckage believed found in Glen Callater, Angus in 1976.”

Not proven but a good start.

Regards
Ross

High ground wrecks has it as L9730. Has anyone got Fleet Air Arm Losses to check?