Top 5 UK Aircraft Manufacturers? – & "WHY?"

Hawker. Where would the RAF have been between the wars without all those biplanes (maybe we should have had the Fairey Fox instead of some though) Or in the BoB withouth the Hurricane? Or postwar without the Hunter, Seahawk & Harrier?

de Havilland. Almost single-handedly founded the light aircraft movement worldwide with the Moth. So many classic types and so much innovation in airframes, engines, propellors and missiles.

Bristol. Like DH, so many important aircraft, engines and missiles for so many years, although not nearly as “glamorous” as DH.

Handley Page. As Cees so rightly points out, the RAF was never without an HP type until the demise of the Victor (or maybe Jetstream)

Shorts. First registered a/c company in the world I think, and still operating.

I completely agree with PhantomII.
Supermarine are important solely because of the Spitfire. Production numbers are gigantic compared to any other British aircraft, but it was the only really successful design they produced. Apart from winning, the Schneider Trophy machines mattered in what Mitchell learned from them but were otherwise a dead end. Their inter-war flying boats were fine, but not significantly better than the contemporary Short and Saro designs. Despite Joe Smith’s undoubted prowess in developing the Spitfire after Mitchell’s death, I’ve never subscribed to the opinion that he was a great, or even good, designer. The Attacker, Swift and Scimitar were not exactly good or successful aircraft and all had a very short service life.

I’m not so sure I would put Supermarine in the list, and although I’ll be crucified for saying so, please allow me to explain why.

When you look at the British aircraft industry it’s got a pretty long history (at least up until recent times), and many of the manufacturers listed were responsible for lots of famous types.

Supermarine is really only known for three aircraft……the S.5/6 racing aircraft that ultimately led to the Spitfire, the Spitfire itself, and to a lesser extent the Swift, which although a great reconnaissance aircraft, was never much as a fighter.

The other companies though, such as DeHavilland, Hawker, BAC (now BAe Systems), Bristol, etc. are responsible for a ton of designs from the interwar years all the way until fairly recently.

Hawker – Fury, Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest, Sea Fury, Sea Hawk, Hunter, Harrier (as Hawker-Siddeley), HS.125 (originally DH 125 under DeHavilland)

DeHavilland – Tiger Moth, Mosquito, Dove, Comet, Trident, Vampire, Venom, Sea Vixen

Bristol – Blenheim, Beaufighter, Britannia, Sycamore (first British helo)

Avro – Lancaster, 748, Shackleton, Vulcan

BAC – Strikemaster, 1-11, 146 (later Avro), Concorde (with Aerospatiale of course), later the Tornado and Jaguar programs (partnerships with other companies of course), Lightning & Canberra (under E.E. originally)

What I’m saying is that while Supermarine is certainly one of the most important British aircraft manufacturers ever, don’t forget about many of the other companies which have provided England with so many great designs throughout the years.

(For the record I think the Spitfire is a fine airplane and one of the most beautiful ever built, but should one design catapult one company above all the others that have done so much for British aviation over the years?) Just something to think about.

Agree with DH Avro and Hawker (more so if you include Sopwith/Hawker, but I wouldn’t). All were able to adapt to the times and changing politics. Sustainability in difficult times is, I would suggest, a sign of a great firm. Bristol engines are a factor to be considered – and Dh too
I would put Vickers higher (and not just for the Spitfire)
If you said pre-WWII then I would include Shorts for pioneering development but they did not sustain that level post war, so I’d leave them in 6th or 7th of your top five.

Well there doesnt seem to have been much debate etc, so perhaps I will list my own view?

1. DH – DH60, DH82, Comet racer, Mosquito, Vampire, Comet, Seavixen
2. Avro – 504K, Avian, Avro Ten, Tutor/Cadet, Anson, Lancaster, Vulcan
3. Hawker – Fury/Hart etc, Hurricane, Seafury, Hunter, Seahawk, Harrier
4. Bristol – Boxkite, Fighter, Bulldog, Blenheim, Beaufort, Beaufighter, freighter
5. Handley Page -0/400, HP 42, Hamden, Halifax, Hastings, Victor

The DH company delivered some iconic aircraft to world aviation, the DH60, the DH82 and Comet Airliner and some in great numbers, and there were many other pre-war types that I chose not to list but which were as important as some of the other makers types listed below them. (DH50, Fox Moth, Dragon, Express, Dove).

Avro came a close second in my mind, and for its time the 504K was to the military what the DH60 was to civilian aviation, the Avro Ten is not an in house design, but the Avro Ten played a major role in pre-war airlines within commonwealth countries, the Anson was perhaps England’s equivalent to the DC3, a prewar design performing so many varied roles, and for such a long period of production and service, and of course the Lancaster and Vulcan speak for themselves.

Hawker edges Bristol out in my mind due to the span of existance from pre-WW1 into the jet age with again iconic types such as the boxkite and Beaufighter, while Handley Page brings up the rear.

I felt Fairey sat just outside the top 5 behind HP perhaps followed by Vickers, and drew the line at amalgamating the productions of Vickers and Supermarine,. hawker – siddley etc under combined banners, but obviously sticking to the top 5 should yield enough debate and opinions.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Finally Handley Page, thanks BSG-75

There was a saying that since WWI the RAF never was without a Handley Page aircraft type. O/400, V/1500, Hyderabad, Heyford, Hampden, Halifax, Victor, need I say more?

Cheers

Cees

Ummm

Tough call – try and mix “numbers” and quality of what was manufactured….?

1) Hawker
2) Handley Page
3) Avro
4) Vickers Supermarine (is that a cheat so I can get Wellingtons and Spits in !?)
5) RAE for “early” contribution ?

Bristol is a good shout, Shorts, Westland for pioneering UK helicopters etc…..

this will run a while !

A biased list here in that all these companies had bases in the Hampshire/IoW area

Supermarine…for the S5/S6b/Spitfire line
Avro…..for the foresight to realise that a dedicated manufacturing facility with provision for the labour force was essential (Hamble)
SARO…. For innovation in the world of marine aviation
Cierva…gave rise to the British helicopter industry
Simmonds…for innovation in simplifying light aircraft (The Spartan had interchangeable mainplanes,flaps/ailerons/elevators etc etc.

perhaps just to clarify, my intention was to compare the historically most significant UK aviation companies, regardless if they are still existing or no longer commercially operating.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Well many thanks for clarifying your intention, Mark.

Here is mine.

1….Supermarine
2….Hawker
3….Avro
4….De Havilland
5….Bristol

But then again what do I know?

Based on what?
History?
Development?
Longevity?
Successes?

The story has been told, the history is written, the successes and failures are well known.
At the end of the day, the British aviation industry was thwarted by too much beurocracy and red tape.
If not for those, it could easily have been a world leader.

Here is mine.

1….Supermarine
2….Hawker
3….Avro
4….De Havilland
5….Bristol

But then again what do I know?

5. English Electric – OK so they were not the biggest aircraft manufacture and are probably better known for their achievements in the sphere of electric motors and railway locomotives but I had to include this because of the Lightning.

Ultimately it’s all a matter of opinion and I will respect other views……

Just out of interest and in no way a dig as I do love a good Lightning too..I’m frequently surprised at why the Lightning is oft quoted or revered as being the pinnacle of English Electric aircraft design, even with it’s many and varied flaws, whilst the longer serving and more adaptable Canberra remains (or so it seems to me) overshadowed and almost forgotten. 🙁

Anyway, the list by personal preference only:

1 – Gloster – so many pioneering designs and concepts
2 – EECo for Canberra longevity and Lightning wow factor 😀
3 – Bristol for it’s development work
4 – Hawker – Hurricane!
5 – Folland – bit of underdog fascination

perhaps just to clarify, my intention was to compare the historically most significant UK aviation companies, regardless if they are still existing or no longer commercially operating.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Interesting topic and one that will I’m sure generate plenty of debate. This being a historic forum I’ve ignored mergers and takeovers as well as current structures. My list is:

1. Supermarine – the Spitfire – need I say more?
2. Hawker – Hurricane and Hunter – again I don’t feel I need to justify this one.
3. De Havilland – my personal favourite with a tremendous pedigree in military aviation, civil aviation as well as weapon systems
4. Bristol – primarily due to their huge influence in the area of jet engine development
5. English Electric – OK so they were not the biggest aircraft manufacture and are probably better known for their achievements in the sphere of electric motors and railway locomotives but I had to include this because of the Lightning.

Ultimately it’s all a matter of opinion and I will respect other views……

Im trying to think whether we do or not… and i suspect this list will be controversial, considering ownership and in BN’s case where the airframes are actually manufactured…

AgustaWestland
BAE Systems
Britten Norman

Im willing to be proved wrong but i think the answer is no… On the other hand if your taking aerostructures its a little better…

Airbus (DH/HSA and Bristol)
Bombardier (Shorts)
GE ( Smiths, Folland and at a pinch Boulton Paul)
GKN (SARO, bits of Westland, bits of Bristol)
Safran (Hurel-Hispano)
Slingsby(?)
Spirit Aerostructures (Scottish Aviation)

Zeb

Blimey, does the UK still have 5 aircraft manufacturers?:eek: