Future reconstruction/restoration projects, what can be expect?

Yes, I want to know about that one too please

Elliott?

Cheers

Cees

It’s been quiet for some time on the Whitley found in the Baltic. If I remember right it was said to be in an area with low-saline water – anyone heard any more??

Roger Smith.

Hi all,

We have been spoiled rotten the past decade with several unique and rare aircraft restorations, either static or for flight. The fiat CR42 and two Me-109 ‘s spring to mind. It seems like funds are not a problem for some of the prolific collector/restoreres. What can we expect in the near future?
The Tempest finally in the air, any Typhoons emerging, Stuka projects, any ideas?

Cheers

Cees

I know Cees questions what we can see in the near future does bring to mind the current projects underway, and on that basis perhaps within the next 5 years we can expect to see one or more Japanese Tony’s, 2 Mosquito’s return to the air, a beaufort return to the air, perhaps at least one Beaufighter return to the air, with other exotics like the P61, A20G’s, Kingfishers, as well as additional Spitfires, Mustangs Hurricanes and P-47s, and more Hawker Hinds.

Some exotic replica’s are also underway including the Bristol Bulldog mentioned elsewhere, and the Douglas world Cruiser etc.

However before “re-reading” his post, I originally interpreted Cees question to relate to recoveries, recreations or restorations not yet underway, and rather than delete my draft I thought I would post it in anycase as I feel most of those existing P40/Corsairs, beaufighters, beaufort, P61 & mosquitos are already “current” rather than “future” projects, and therefore not going to be a surprise, but rather patiently anticipated and factored in.

I personally think we will see more exotic Axis aircraft being recovered/recreated/restored, there was a substantial amount of Stuka material recovered although I believe some of those are in the hands of museums for long term static outcomes, I do wonder if there is sufficient material for an airworthy outcome.

Russian/eastern recoveries:
I still believe there are more wrecks to be recovered and rebuilt from Russia, and as was commented in the Russian Stirling thread, I have a feeling some of the best wrecks are yet to be made known or be made available, it may be more Hurricanes, Yaks and P39’s or something more exotic like the “Stirling”?

Salt Water recoveries:
the recent Skua recovery demonstrated how an “intact” aircraft in salt water may not translate to much on the surface, obviously that recovery will allow a composite Skua restoration to be successfully completed, and perhaps if the USN’s NHC really is changing its blanket policy against recoveries we might see the rare TBD Devastator’s recovered from Jaluit in the Pacific and restored for Pensacola?

Beyond that I think we will see diminishing returns from Salt Water recoveries over the next 20 years as the environment reclaims the remains beyond economic recovery, I remain sceptical that a Halifax or Stirling are viable salt water recoveries even today, and the proposed Sunderland Mark I recovery at Pembroke Dock should provide an insight to the deterioration of large 70 year old airframes, having said that the P-40L in Italy demonstrates the exception to the rule, it was in shallow water and seems to remain rather intact and integral?

Fresh Water recoveries:
There have been surprising and interesting recoveries of a P-47 and B-25 in recent memory, and there are rumoured significant wrecks of a Lancaster and Halifax still lurking in European lakes, but the question remains will someone invest (or have the capability) in the costs, time and effort to recover, and restore such large airframes? beyond those already in the National collections of the UK and Canada, (despite its relevence I cant see Australia or NZ pursuing a Halifax or additional Lancaster restoration?). I think we may continue to be surprised what will be discovered / recovered in the future?

Pacific Recoveries:
I am surprised that there hasnt been a larger recovery/restoration effort out of Japan to preserve (or even fly) some of the commonly used, but notionally extinct Japanese aircraft still surviving in project viable wreckage in the pacific, ie Sally/Betty/Pete.

I know Japan seems to have been a perpetual financial down turn for many years and there is still contraversy over commemorating WW2, but with an affluent society, strong business success and younger generations I am still expecting some type of rear guard action to preserve some of these types (even as static) back in Japan as National heritage before they are lost forever? I personally feel scrapping and ongoing deterioration will make some of these remaining wrecks unviable over the next 10-15 years?

Obviously government policy on such issues in PNG will have a great impact on that but there are signs of a thawing with apparant progress on Swamp Ghost, and the contrasting of example of the Ballalae Island recoveries?

Of course if PNG revised its recovery policy there would also be a renewed recovery of more marketable project wrecks such as P40’s, P39s etc, and possibly see the Black Pass B17 and B24 wrecks being considered for eventual recovery? (but again the appetite to restore them diminishes with the existing relevent National collections already having examples?)

New build/Recreations:
I suspect that in the new build / recreation area that the next likely focus will be Italian inline fighters such as the Macchi 202/205 or Fiat G.55 powered by allison or merlins?, they seem to the remaining area not yet covered but likely to create a market demand, following on from YAK 3/9’s, FW190s, Rata’s ME262’s etc particularly if a pattern aircraft can be borrowed to template/reverse engineer (as was done with the Me262) and a number of airworthy/static outcomes can be production-lined given the scarcity of the types?

Post War/ jets:
I do wonder if our hobby will continue to progess into post war “warbirds” to the same breadth and depth of jet aircraft as exists with the WW2 types.

There was a long held view that the retired WW2 pilots wanting to own and fly WW2 warbirds would be replaced by Korean/Vietnam/Desert storm period pilots wishing to fly their respective jet powered mounts causing a change in the market and prices, however we are seeing a strong second or younger generation interest in the WW2 types, regardless of the higher performance offered by the post war and later generation aircraft?, and coincident with a lesser uptake, and availability of the jets?

There are a number of post war jet trainers flying the warbird circuits, along with piston trainers, and FAC types, but the number and variety of jet fighters in private hands seems very limited beyond the Hunters, and the number of jet bombers can be counted on one hand.

We seem to be struggling to expand beyond 1950/60’s types of F86, Hunter, Meteor, Vampire and Canberra’s in the air, the Mig /Lin 15/17/21 examples all seem to be being progressively grounded, and while there has been access to former east European L-29/39 trainers, it seems clear western governments are becoming reluctant to sell high performance military aircraft, trainers/fighters/bombers, even into the static museum market let alone the warbird market?
Added to that is the complexity, uniqueness of parts etc, that must make such restorations and operations far more difficult and less viable?

I am therefore uncertain what surprises in the jet market we will see, the recent Mirage III was a great result, but I’m not sure its ushering in a growth phase?, and is simply flying against the trend.

The “post war” warbird growth seems destined to remain in the trainer/liason markets such as the Nangchung?

WW1 Replicas/Recreations:
An interesting aspect to consider is the resurgence of WW1 replicas and restorations already being undertaken, obviously there are patrons to that activity in the form of Peter Jackson and others, but the approaching WW1 centenary over the next 5 – 10 years and the ability to recreate production lines of rare WW1 engines, or substitute rotaries with modern small radials such as the Rotec 3600 should see an increase again in WW1 replica building, particularly given the ability to undertake such projects in the back garage? I therefore wonder if we will see more examples of exotic types like the BE2, Gunbus, DH5 etc being undertaken as accurate replica’s over the next 5 years. I’m not sure anyones going to build an airworthy (or static) HP 0/400,? (other than Peter Jackson – smiles) but I think there is already a german WW1 twin engined bomber under construction in the USA?

It also offers a relatively low cost/easy entry into the warbird/vintage hobby, and with plans, engines and specialist parts increasing in availability I feel this is where the real growth will be over the next 10 years, over and above the current fractional scale ultralight “replica’s” and more into accurate 1/1 scale reproductions/recreations.

If the financial crisis levels out, and the hip pocket continues to fund the growing interest, I think the limit/cap on available post war jets etc will see further WW2 recoveries, further WW2 extinct recreations and an uplift in WW1 replica’s?, and perhaps a strong crossover of interest into civil and vintage restorations/recreations as well?

Anyway thats my thoughts on Cee’s question for what it is worth?

regards

Mark Pilkington

Ummmm,errrr

QldSpitty, do you mean the CA27 at Temora?

Yeah thats her…:o

Restorations

QldSpitty, do you mean the CA27 at Temora?

The most unusual restoration project i know about is a Tupolev R-6

Here in Australia,Spitfires,Boomerangs,P40,s and a Beaufort.Corsair and F86,probably a few others.Mark Pilkington or JDK would have a better finger on the pulse…

30+ years ago the substancial remains of a Fairey Gordon were recovered from the mountains on the South Island . It made Air Pictorial at the time but little or no news since.

A P-61 is being restored to airworthy status by the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Pennsylvania.

Hi Cees

There seemed to be a number of potential rare projects gathering momentum in the late 80’s/90’s, many of which were as a result of recoveries:

Me.110 – Germany – to static
JU.87 Stuka – German – to static
Battle – Belguim – to static
Fw.189 – Flying Heritage? – under rebuild to airworthy.
Fw.190 x 2 – Flying Heritage/White One foundation – under rebuild to airworthy.
Sturmovik – Tempest Two – static
Tempest II – Tempest Two – ?
Yak 1 – HAC, East Sussex – under rebuild to airworthy
Halifax – Tenton, Canada – static
Mosquito FB26 – NZ – under rebuild to airworthy
Fiat CR42 – under rebuild to airworthy
Me.109 – several to airworthy
Beaufighter – under rebuild to airworthy

So in brief, we have been spoilt by the variety of the few types I can think of here…. and that’s just the WW2 stuff.