Hawker Sea Hawk WV910 (ETPS machine) – photos?

I note ‘serials’ has WV910 w/o in 1958 and sent to ETPS for ground instruction. Dad has a 50 minute ‘famil’ flight logged on 29th April 1959, so that info is not quite correct.

WV910 was certified Cat HX on 2/5/58 (not w/o).

Cat HX indicates that the aircraft may have been repairable on-site, so may well have subsequently flown again.

Just came back across this thread again, really nice to read some updates to it, thanks Trumble. So…that means I won’t be doing any fancy repaints for WV910 but at least I can put that to rest now.

Thank you Mr. Trumble.

Thank you Mr. Trumble sir, brilliant !!!!!. And to your dad for his memories too.

That confirms Pagens thoughts, over to you Steve. Pics,—Pics,—Pics. 😀

Bill T.

Only just stumbled upon this thread.

I can add a little more; my father flew WV910 in April 1959 on 18 Course ETPS. I’ve just check with him, he is ‘almost certain’ the jet was in standard RN colours, ie: Grey-ish top and lighter grey underside.

He said it was ‘most certainly not’ red and white.

He recalls only one jet that was red and white on the course, a Hunter T7 that belonged to the manufacturer.

I note ‘serials’ has WV910 w/o in 1958 and sent to ETPS for ground instruction. Dad has a 50 minute ‘famil’ flight logged on 29th April 1959, so that info is not quite correct.

Sorry no photos.

I’m with Chox myself, find it very unlikely that the Seahawk flew in a special test scheme and remained in RN colours which was the norm at the time.
There was a dedicated RN test squadron at the RAE, their aircraft always wearing standard FAA colours.
The special colour schemes were something that were introduced to the RAE, A&AEE and ETPS during the mid ’60s, originally having slightly different schemes before uniting with the red white and blue scheme in the ’70s – well after the Seahawks time.

Lovely bird really, but I do prefer a ripple myself!

Lucky me then!

Incidentally and completely off topic – but our “Blue Bomber” T4 WJ874 on 39 Sqn was due to go all goth and get adorned in blackness after her 50th Anniversary tour in the now famous Petter Blue representation scheme..as it turned out the blue proved so popular we never went ahead with it (amongst other reasons)..Always wondered how she would’ve looked in gloss black..

Okay sorry, back on with the topic in hand! 😮

Interesting, I had no idea, Tim. I like the Petter blue a lot myself, even if the shade they did WJ874 in is not quite azure enough but more turquoise/PRU blue. The tone they did the T.4 in for the 40th anniv. at Wyton was closer, but was matt rather than gloss, so not quite accurate either. For an all-black, glossy Canberra, think VX185, or better yet, English Electric’s old chase Canberra, G-ATZW. There is a colour pic on Air Britain I think of the latter, and I did a repaint of it too. Lovely bird really, but I do prefer a ripple myself!

The research establishment aircraft rarely carried special colur schemes before the mid-60s – service schemes were the main base colours used. In the mid 60s, Boscombe adopted a red liveried scheme and farnborough a blue version, until the MOD (PE) scheme started to come in in the mid 70s

Black Canberra

Incidentally and completely off topic – but our “Blue Bomber” T4 WJ874 on 39 Sqn was due to go all goth and get adorned in blackness after her 50th Anniversary tour in the now famous Petter Blue representation scheme..as it turned out the blue proved so popular we never went ahead with it (amongst other reasons)..Always wondered how she would’ve looked in gloss black..

Okay sorry, back on with the topic in hand! 😮

at least it was retired before the new all-black scheme became fashionable. How ghastly would that have been?!

Absolutely !!! our a/c now look like cr*p in the BORING black scheme,talk about drab!!!:rolleyes:
If anybody wants to see a pleasant ‘ripple’ paint job ,here is a pic of Hawk XX162 from a few years ago…she still flies for Centre of Aviation Medicine but now in the dull as ditchwater black scheme !!:rolleyes:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK—Air/Hawker-Siddeley-Hawk/0638719&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=3&sok=WHERE__%28reg_%3D_%27XX162%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=1202644&next_id=0493500

cheers baz

The reason why 601 had a slightly different “raspberry ripple” scheme was down to the people that painted it – nothing to do with the operator. In essence, the aircraft was simply an MoD(PE) aircraft and didn’t belong to any specific unit as such, in fact I believe the “official owners” were actually Porton Down.

The “raspberry ripple” scheme was applied in various forms depending on the aircraft and the paint shop concerned. There were some basic written rules (which I’ve subsequently lost – doh!) concerning the scheme, such as the proportions of the red on the wings and tail etc.) but the rules appear to have been completely ignored on various aircraft. As one of the last aircraft to be repainted in the scheme, 601 appears to have suffered from the most liberal interpretation of all! Shame that it didn’t manage to hang-on to the more conservative red/grey scheme a little longer, still, at least it was retired before the new all-black scheme became fashionable. How ghastly would that have been?!

Ah a picture of XF375 – possibly my favourite Hunter (and scheme)!

XE601 was never used by the ETPS, it spent all of it’s life IIRC with A sqn and later fast jet Sqn of A&AEE, so it’s scheme was a little bit of a one off. Here’s a more side on view of XE601

And an ETPS F6 in the period ETPS scheme – XF375 at IAT76

Just for fun here’s 601 rippled…

I always wondered why ‘601 had a slightly different Raspberry Ripple paint scheme than all of the ETPS aircraft and now, at last, I have the answer!

Another box ticked off my things to know before I die sheet, now back to the TSR2… :p

Rocketeer, I’m not accusing anyone of anything – if you think my hunch is wrong then fine, as I said, I’d love to see a photo of the aircraft in the grey/red scheme because I’ve never seen a photo of a Sea Hawk in such colours before – nor has anyone else it seems.

All I was saying is that if the aircraft stopped flying around 1960, then it would surely have been in a fairly standard FAA paint scheme at that time. The grey/red paint scheme didn’t appear on machines until later? Pictures of A&AEE/ETPS aircraft around 1960 show the airframes in standard paint schemes (ie camouflage or silver with T-bands, etc). Consequently, I could only assume that if the Sea Hawk did receive grey/red paint, it would have been after she stopped flying? Likewise, as has been said previously, the red overspray visible on the photo suggests that the red was applied after the nose was removed, so unless she was repainted…

I agree that we are definitely closest with that XF375 shot, Tony. I will wait a bit longer though on the off chance we find out for sure. If not it’ll be guesswork based off what we have here. I’m sure she’ll still look fetching in red and grey.

I would go with the XF375 type scheme, but will aim to find out if our photographis guys have any pix…..

Thanks to Bill, Chox, Tony and everyone else for shedding more light on this mystery. It looks the case is still somewhat open though until we get a clearer idea of the full colour scheme. The Hunter photo helps, but I feel I still can’t accurately paint this one up yet. There’s got to be some old ETPS photos showing WV910 lying around in personal collections…

Seems like 910 had an interesting service life nonetheless, even if she didn’t make the conversion upgrade to FGA.6 like many sister FGA.4s (isn’t WV797 at the MAM another upgrade conversion?) As for her ground instruction work, UK Serials states 910 was w/o in ’58 to the ETPS as a GIA, and Rocketeer himself used for those purposes. Great to hear that, by the way. It is interesting that she flew between ’53-59, so she must have worn some kind of ETPS colours prior to the ‘chop colours’ as has been theorised. These may well have been different to what we see on the current nose cone, as Chox suggests. The plot thickens…

XE601 was never used by the ETPS, it spent all of it’s life IIRC with A sqn and later fast jet Sqn of A&AEE, so it’s scheme was a little bit of a one off. Here’s a more side on view of XE601

.
And an ETPS F6 in the period ETPS scheme – XF375 at IAT76

Just for fun here’s 601 rippled…

I never said XE601 was an ETPS aircraft!!! I meant WV910!
601 followed the old pre-Raspberry ripple colours used by ETPS…..these were MOA/MOF/MOD/MOD(PE)* fleet aircraft colours. Take pick of when these were ‘in charge’.

Raspberry ripple was not peculiar to ETPS or A&AEE, indeed witness assorted RAE aircraft from the old Bedford and Farnborough fleets.
601 was always A&AEE/DTEO/DERA/QinetiQ when she was at BD (again take your pick!)

Chox, your hunch is wrong….from my access to the cockpit at the BDAC and when working with it when it was working for a living….
but then again what do I know!

My hunch is that the aircraft didn’t carry a grey/red paint scheme during her flying career. The dates mentioned are pretty early and at that stage I would think it more likely that standard FAA colours were worn. I guess it’s possible that the grey/red scheme was applied at a later stage when the aircraft became a ground instructional airframe though, but in the absence of a photo I suppose we have to conclude that only the nose section was painted… but let’s see if any evidence emerges!

She is in the colours she wore as an ETPS airframe. When she retired from flying use the cockpit was lopped off and the internals converted to allow TPs and FTEs to ‘calibrate’ their hands in the way of control forces. When I graduated in 1991 we used her….last year of her use sadly. Was a simple but effective tool. The cockpit gauges still works for this and pugs into the wall using a 3 pin plug!!!

WV910 was marked up with the ETPS fleet number ’20’ and she flew between 1953 and 59.
The attached crap photo shows XE601 in her last colours prior to raspberry ripple taken in the late 80s. The Sea Hawk would have been similar with a red tail….I would need to check for cheat line….dont think there is one under the paint though

XE601 was never used by the ETPS, it spent all of it’s life IIRC with A sqn and later fast jet Sqn of A&AEE, so it’s scheme was a little bit of a one off. Here’s a more side on view of XE601

And an ETPS F6 in the period ETPS scheme – XF375 at IAT76

Just for fun here’s 601 rippled…

Thanks to Bill, Chox, Tony and everyone else for shedding more light on this mystery. It looks the case is still somewhat open though until we get a clearer idea of the full colour scheme. The Hunter photo helps, but I feel I still can’t accurately paint this one up yet. There’s got to be some old ETPS photos showing WV910 lying around in personal collections…

Seems like 910 had an interesting service life nonetheless, even if she didn’t make the conversion upgrade to FGA.6 like many sister FGA.4s (isn’t WV797 at the MAM another upgrade conversion?) As for her ground instruction work, UK Serials states 910 was w/o in ’58 to the ETPS as a GIA, and Rocketeer himself used for those purposes. Great to hear that, by the way. It is interesting that she flew between ’53-59, so she must have worn some kind of ETPS colours prior to the ‘chop colours’ as has been theorised. These may well have been different to what we see on the current nose cone, as Chox suggests. The plot thickens…