Hunter GA.11 question Please

Just to say that GA11 WT711 is the ONLY GA11 that was never fitted with a Harley Light but retained its solid nose cone throughout for some reason!!

BIG THANKS to all those folks out there showing an interest in WT711 as she is up for sale at the moment …

Unfortunately I have since received photographic proof that this fact is incorrect. WT711 did indeed get the Harley light treatment in the early 1970s.
It would appear that the solid nosecone was fitted only after it had been moved, and also recoded to 833, for ground instructional use at RNAS Culdrose.
This would certainly tie in with the School of Aircraft Handling’s other GA.11s of the time; WT804/831, XE668/832, “WW654″/834 and WV267/836.
The FRADU Hunter site should soon be updated with this info.

One hopes she finds a good home 🙂

Harley Light NOT fitted to GA11 WT711

Adding to the quote:

“and of course later in there life they had “Harley Lights ” fitted, but as for a GA.11 , converted in the early 1960s, it is Basicly a F.4 with the Guns removed, ?and that is about it ??”

Just to say that GA11 WT711 is the ONLY GA11 that was never fitted with a Harley Light but retained its solid nose cone throughout for some reason!!

BIG THANKS to all those folks out there showing an interest in WT711 as she is up for sale at the moment …

Hi

For anyone interested, there’s still one GA-11 curently airworthy in the UK.

…and worldwide! Unless WV267/836 is flying in the USA of course, which would seem unlikely given it hasn’t been seen for several years.

Several of the GA11s were moved to Hurn for the Fleet Requirements Unit *(FRU) in 1969, whereas others were posted to the Air Direction Training Unit at Yeovilton before the two Units merged in December 1972 to become FRADU.

GA.11s XF300 and XF301 were in LTS at Kemble until the early 1980s, so they may have have their gunsights etc until then 🙂

Hi

For anyone interested, there’s still one GA-11 curently airworthy in the UK.
The aircraft is XE685 and its still retains its FRADU markings and code, which is 861. The aircraft is based at Exeter Airport and is part of the Hunter Flying Ltd fleet.

Also part of Hunter Flying’s fleet is former FRADU Hunter PR-11 WT723. This aircraft is currently painted up in Black Arrows markings and marked up as “XG194”. This was to mark the 50th anniversary of the famous 22 Hunter loop at Farnboriugh in 1958. This aircraft is the oldest Hunter still flying in the world today.

Freebird

and What a gorgeous Aircraft she is too, XE685 🙂

Airworthy GA-11

Hi

For anyone interested, there’s still one GA-11 curently airworthy in the UK.
The aircraft is XE685 and its still retains its FRADU markings and code, which is 861. The aircraft is based at Exeter Airport and is part of the Hunter Flying Ltd fleet.

Also part of Hunter Flying’s fleet is former FRADU Hunter PR-11 WT723. This aircraft is currently painted up in Black Arrows markings and marked up as “XG194”. This was to mark the 50th anniversary of the famous 22 Hunter loop at Farnboriugh in 1958. This aircraft is the oldest Hunter still flying in the world today.

Freebird

Correct, ALL GA.11s were converted from F.4s.

The engines were the same and the airframe was basically the same but some changes were made, e.g. the addition of an airfield arrestor hook, change to F.6 ‘style’ wings (with the ‘dog tooth’ leading edge extensions).

All gun systems were removed and the gun ports and cartridge/link ejection ports faired over. Intially the GGS was retained however in order to target RPs for the ground attack role.

The avionics were updated with the addition of ARC.52 radios in place of the old TR.1986 and TR.1987 sets and the installation of TACAN navigation system.

Cockpit interior was modified to accomodate controls and instrumentation for the above and for the fitment of certain other updated instruments, e.g. height-encoding altimeter.

When the aircraft were later transferred from the FAA to FRADU most were fitted with Harley lights in place of the radome and the GGS removed due to the change of role discussed previously.

So, yes, basically an updated and slightly modified F.4 with guns removed and a pretty paint scheme!

SO Just to corroberate what has been said !!, Please excuse me for being a little dense, But from what I can see, Most if not all the GA.11 aircraft were all actually converted from Old F.4 Aircraft,

which Didnt have any changes in airframe, Engine,or Cockpit design, Apart from, Removal of all the Gun systems, and Blanking off the Gun ports ??

and of course later in there life they had “Harley Lights ” fitted, but as for a GA.11 , converted in the early 1960s, it is Basicly a F.4 with the Guns removed, ?
and that is about it ??

I am sure you will tell me if I am wrong ??:D

There are some nice photos on that page.

And if you look carefully, for example here http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/hunter7xx/images/xe682-by-0866-rd.jpg
and here http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/hunter7xx/images/xf297-by-0866-rd.jpg, they all have gunsights fitted!

Thanks again ,

Yep I looked under 738 Sqn, and found a few pics of GA.11’s with the FAA,
I believe the pics were taken at Brawdy ,

http://www.fradu-hunters.co.uk/hunter7xx/738nas.html

I never realised they were converted to GA.11 from such a early date,especailly as early as 1962 !.

Thanks for sharing the info with us mark,:)

Thankyou Mark,

Youve cleared that little puzzle up for me,looks like they might have had the
Gunsight for about a year if that, and from what I have read, it is only the RN that had the GA.11, all converted from F.4 types.

so it seems prettymuch as soon as they were put into service with the FAA, they had the gunsights Junked ,

Thanks again,
Chris C

Correct, they were all converted from F.4s, but we need to distinguish between the FAA and FRADU.

The GA.11s first went into service with the FAA as ground attack trainers in 1962. When the Navy were finished with them they started to move to FRADU (Fleet Requirements and Air Direction Unit which is a civilian operation) in 1969, and it seems likely that THAT’s the point when the GGS was removed as their role then changed to ‘pretending’ to be targets rather than shooting at stuff!

So they may have had gunsights for 7 or 8 years until FRADU took over.

Ps
Nice website on your Hunter !!,

Thanks!

Thankyou Mark,

Youve cleared that little puzzle up for me,looks like they might have had the
Gunsight for about a year if that, and from what I have read, it is only the RN that had the GA.11, all converted from F.4 types.

so it seems prettymuch as soon as they were put into service with the FAA, they had the gunsights Junked ,

Thanks again,
Chris C

Ps
Nice website on your Hunter !!,

Looking at various photos online, including this one from 1975 it looks like they had no gun sight fitted. I’m familiar with how this view angle should show a gunsight if fitted – XF382 has it’s in place and it is very obvious from this same angle.

Also this GA 11 image shows how it looks from the inside

True, that photo definately shows no GGS fitted. However, 1975 would put it well into FRADU ownership (in common with most other GA.11 photos on the web) which involved a change of role over their intial FAA ground attack training usage.

I have a GA.11/PR.11 Vol.1 in front of me (with amendments between April 1962 and November 1972) which has a section on the Mk.5A GGS installation so they certainly had them at the start. It does say though that “The installation in this aircraft differs in some respects. The gun sight is used only for rocket projectiles. This application does not employ radar ranging.”.

I suspect the GGS was removed as no longer needed when FRADU took on the aircraft in 1969/70.

Thanks Fella’s
Really Helpful 😀
I wonder when they decided to take the GGS Gunsight out of the GA.11 ??

as I am interested in the 1969- 70 -71 period (years) .

I know th GA.11 was used from 1975 -80 In the “Blue Herons” aerobatic team, obviously by then “Not” in use as Ground Gunnery training.

But Perhaps in the “Very early Years with the FAA, would they have possibly been in Use for GA training ??,with the Gunsight in situ ??.

I thought the GA.11 was used for gunnery training as in being shot at!
They were used by FRADU for fleet support work involving ship simulated anti-aircraft gunnery practice and evasion.
IE similar role to todays FRADU Hawks.

Thats how they ended their FAA days, but, originally they were aquired for ground attack training. One thing that always confuses me is, why were they never called “Sea” Hunters? Or moreover why did we not get Sea Jetstreams – Seastreams?!

Looking at various photos online, including this one from 1975 it looks like they had no gun sight fitted. I’m familiar with how this view angle should show a gunsight if fitted – XF382 has it’s in place and it is very obvious from this same angle.

Also this GA 11 image shows how it looks from the inside

I thought the GA.11 was used for gunnery training as in being shot at!
They were used by FRADU for fleet support work involving ship simulated anti-aircraft gunnery practice and evasion.
IE similar role to todays FRADU Hawks.

Merkle,

In the GA.11 the guns and ammunition tanks were removed from the gun pack and the space used to house the TACAN navigation equipment. Consequently the gun ranging radar was also removed from the nose as it was no longer needed.

The Mk.5 GGS was retained however because, as you say, of the need to target RPs and bombs, although in the latter days I don’t think they were often fitted. Anyone know more?