Identity of this Catalina?

This is my Father’s plane

All –

I know this is an old thread but I thought you would like to know this is my father’s airplane.

I happened across this thread a couple of days ago, and was surprised to see this here.

My father is Capt. C. Seigrist and he was the pilot of this aircraft when they were arrested by the Dutch navy in 1948. My father’s business partner Al Onstott was with him and they spent a year in a squalid local Indonesian prison in the jungle where they were still keeping Japanese POWs. My dad suffered greatly during this period and he is convinced the Japanese never made it out alive. Frankly speaking everyone there was being held for ransom in one form or another. My father swears he went crazy in that prison.

Here is a picture of my dad flying in the P.I. in PI-C220 before the arrest.

https://picasaweb.google.com/100561096835667676348/CaptConnieSeigSeigrist#5367384767783318098

The circumstances around this case are actually much deeper than was ever reported. My father was contracted by British and Dutch colonial farmers to fly US Army surplus Tommy guns from the Philippines to “fight the communists.” In fact it was a double cross by the colonialists because they knew both my Dad and Mr. Onstott were Americans and would make good patsies. Basically Truman and the US government at that time was very anti-colonialist and if FDR had survived he would have insisted that Britain and the Netherlands give up all of their colonial claims in South East Asia.

In the case of Truman, however, he was more “on the fence” and so by the Dutch holding my father and his friends captive, they used it as leverage to keep the colonies a bit longer… and after much negotiation over a year, my dad was released from prison. You could say my father was probably the last American victim of British colonial hegemony!

After my dad got out, he lost Insular Airways (it was derelict for a year while he was in the “pokey”), and moved to Taiwan and spent the next 25 years flying for CAT/Air America.

David Legg actually knows a fair amount of my father’s various exploits.

Alan

Cat ID

colour not good

Canadian Vickers OA-10A Catalina
Canadian-built Catalina (PBV-1A) from Navy contract (BuNo 67832/68061) delivered to USAAF.
Survivors redesignated A-10A in 1948.

44-33868 … 44-34097
34059 condemned for salvage Sep 30, 1945 after accident.
34063 transferred to French Navy
34065 condemned for salvage Jul 1, 1946
34066 to civil registry as XY-ABY
44-34067 no info…………………………………………………….
34072 to civil registry as XY-ABW
34077 (c/n 1821) to US Navy as BuNo 46457.
34080 shot down in Tokyo Bay 8/13/1945. One crew member survived

From Baugher Acft Serials

Don

Cat ID

Canadian Vickers OA-10A Catalina
Canadian-built Catalina (PBV-1A) from Navy contract (BuNo 67832/68061) delivered to USAAF.
Survivors redesignated A-10A in 1948.

44-33868 … 44-34097
34059 condemned for salvage Sep 30, 1945 after accident.
34063 transferred to French Navy
34065 condemned for salvage Jul 1, 1946
34066 to civil registry as XY-ABY
44-34067 no info…………………………………………………….
34072 to civil registry as XY-ABW
34077 (c/n 1821) to US Navy as BuNo 46457.
34080 shot down in Tokyo Bay 8/13/1945. One crew member survived

From Baugher Acft Serials

Don

Well as long as we’re discussing Catalina’s from the late 40s.

Anyone have any idea on this bird? Found in a scrap book.

Top stuff David… I’ve passed on your thoughts elsewhere as you never know, perhaps some of the grey areas may get filled in…

cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Another murky area of Catalina history! First, just to confirm, PI-C224 and PI-C274 are different Catalinas so no link there between ‘274 and the Cat in the photos at the start of this thread. I have always linked PI-C274 and RI-006 but without any documentary evidence to confirm that but the details above add a lot to what I had previoulsy known. Sadly, PI-C274/RI-006 is another Catalina for which I do not have a c/n or original identity. It is correct, as surmised above, that the Dutch did capture two Cats – PI-C224 and RI-006.

There wsa another Indonesian Catalina, that being RI-005, previously VH-BDP/A24-26 and RCAF 9711. This too was used for nefarious purposes and crashed during an attempted single engined take off from the Batanghari River in Djambi, now Jambi, on 29/12/1949 whilst Dutch troops were closing in on it. In recent years, the remains were salvaged but later dumped and a full size replica of VH-BDP/RI-006 was constructed for external display at a museum in Jambi. The Indonesian AF or AURI later operated a number of PBY-5A type Catalinas in the range PB-501 to PB-505 and if any one knows their previous identities and/or fates, I should be delighted to hear from them. I do not think they were ex-Dutch MLD as has been suggested but conformation would be good!

Thanks for the additional thoughts David… perhaps you can run your eye over this which has been posted in a similar thread over on the excellent Air Warfare Forum?

“I have details about another (?) Catalina that served with the Indonesian republicans at the time. It was identified by them with registration RI-006 and was previously owned by James Fleming who flew it in the Philippines with registration PI-C274. Fleming also flew the aircraft in Indonesia with an Indonesian officer as second pilot on most flights.

It made its first flight from Manila to Maguwo on 23 October 1948 and was registered on 26 October 1948. It made a second flight on 26 November 1948 from Yogyakarta to Jambi and Payakumbuh and back. The third flight was on 15 December 1948 when it flew from Manila to Yogyakarta with a cargo consisting of 100 kg of medicines. In addition Fleming carried some private cargo consisting of cloth samples whilst his partner named Arkin was also on board.

On 18 December 1948 the aircraft was chartered by the Indonesian Federal Commercial Organization for a flight to Tanjung Karang, on which flight it carried 25 civilians and their luggage. On 19 December 1948 the return flight was made with eight passengers, but unaware that the Maguwo airfield had been taken over by the Dutch forces, Fleming landed on the field and was arrested. One of the passengers was found to carry some opium samples as well as 1 kg of gold destined for the Indonesian government in Yogyakarta. On 31 December 1948 Dutch navy officers flew the aircraft, still identified as RI-006, to Tjililitan. Eventually it was transferred to the MLD and broken down for spares.

It is tempting to suggest that this is the aircraft of which Toon posted a picture, if there was not a small problem. As far as I can determine PI-C274 was painted as RI-006 when it was captured by the Dutch. So this probably means the Dutch captured two Catalinas.”

So were RI-006 and PI-C274 the same bird or were there two Catalinas captured by the Dutch?

Cheers,
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Unfortunately, I cannot add any more to my post of the 15th September. Original id still not known although my guess is that it was an ex-USAAF OA-10A Catalina that had been surplussed in the Far East, possibly at Tacloban, but that is not confirmed. A Dutch source says that after it was captured by the Dutch military, they used the hull as a bar!

Allright, that confirms David Legg’s theory about the gun-running then. Any more from him on this aircraft?

Sorry for the delay, here is an answer from the owner of the two images:

“On the first pic is written: De smokkel “cat” which is translated as the smugglers “cat”. The second pic says: De wapen smokkelaar “cat” which is translated as The weapon smugglers “cat”. With a magnifying glass i can read a part of the code on the tail which ends indeed on 224.”

cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Any chance of a larger scan of the second image? I just cannot make out what is written at the bottom. The writing on the first one is ‘De smokkel Cat’ which indeed translates as the smuggling Cat, but the second image seems to have more writing on it.

An interesting site and an interesting period/theatre for which much Catalina history remains murky but much later than the period in which PI-C224 was gun running.

Might be relevant or not both served in Indonesia

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/collections/speccoll/Leeker/pby.pdf

Hi there David…

Great timing as here is a close-up of the tail which has been mirrored the correct way around… and the serial number does indeed look more like PI C224 (even if the last 4 looks like a 6 to my tired eyes)… many thanks indeed! 🙂

cheers
Peter D Evans

Flipped negative in printing, GOOD CATCH David. I see the pitot tube on the starboard but it should be port! Smuggling caption ties right in with your findings

I think I know the answer to this one but you’ll have to bear with me!! First, despite the caption written on the prints, I think the original negs have been printed back to front. If you increase the size of the pictures to say 400% then use something like Microsoft Office Picture Manager and use the ‘Flip Horizintally’ option, this alters the image so that the Catalina is pointing the other way. I then suggest that what can be seen on the fin and rudder is not a USAAF serial but the Philippine registration PI-C224 which is a known PBY registration although, unfortunately, its previous identities and contstruction number are not known (to me at any rate). This theory matches the captions on the photos inasmuch as PI-C224 was operated by Insular Airways and seized by the Dutch authorities whilst being operated on behalf of the Republicans during the Indonesian Independence crisis – gun running in other words. It was impressed by the Dutch MLD at Tandjok Priok although did not fly operationally with them. I heard it was turned into some sort of ‘office’ or similar.

One possible reason for it being on beaching gear is undercarriage retraction testing. We do this with our Duxford based Cat’ in tha hangar each winter.

Interesting to see an amphibious PBY on beaching gear, U/C problems?

This does not seem to be an ex RAAF Cat, it is an amphibious Cat, either a PBY-5A or Canadian built canso?

It seems to have a 5 digit number on its fin/rudder reminscent of the USN Bu no’s, it looks like a “41334” but this doesnt allign with a USN Bu number for a PBY-5A, perhaps its a USAAF number for a PNV or Canso as an OA-10?

The white paint scheme is similar to the OA-10 colours?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Now that would be something Chris… 🙂

While I’m here, just something else to add… the current owner of the photos did say that the inscription on the front of both appears to be “de smokkelcat cat” or “the smugglers Cat”…

Cheers
Pete

My old boss, Jules Scheffer-Dutch Air Force, was rescued by a PBY after his P-40 went down in Borneo (IIRC). Sad to say , he is not around any more. Could be the very A/C that picked him up! Put his crate down in the jungle and hiked to the coast with his life raft, Tommy gun and his dog after his engine quit (suspected sabotage).