Hurricane Ike -Lone Star flight Museum?

NEW LSFM photos coming up on their website!!

I just ck’d and new photos are available on the lsfm website.
Just click on CLICK HERE TO SEE PHOTOS and you get a list of hangar one, hangar two, etc photos…

http://www.lsfm.org/ikephotogallery.html

please look thru all the folders to see the extent of the damage AND RECOVERY!!!

It’s amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, with the statement that I quoted.

1. There was plenty of warning that the storm would come ashore near or at Galveston… I gave data supporting this.

Until 2 days before the storm was showing the highest probability of hitting Corpus Christi which is far enough away from Houston and Galveston to not warrant significant danger warnings in those areas. Threat of a “near” landing of Ike didn’t come until the Wednesday forecasts were issued.

2. The storm did not change direction “with very little notice”. Here is the track from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, showing no sudden direction changes, just a long, gradual sweep:

It wasn’t a change in direction of the storm that created the evacuations it was a change in the forecast cone and your image doesn’t reflect that. Look at this history of the forecast cones and you see that the Wednesday forecasts show for the first time Ike making land fall right over Houston. Up to that point it was forecast to hit near Corpus Christi which is a 150-200 mile shift.

http://www.wnbc.com/slideshow/weather//17420607/detail.html

The Houston area residences were asked to not evacuate so the evacuate route north for those in the southern cities wouldn’t be blocked. After the Wednesday forecast came out it was the Houston area folks told to leave town. To be fair to the Museum volunteers they did plenty given they had their own families to worry about. I would rather save my family than an old airplane.

Bager,
disagree with what? that LSFM was not responsive enough?

No, with the statement that I quoted.

1. There was plenty of warning that the storm would come ashore near or at Galveston… I gave data supporting this.

2. The storm did not change direction “with very little notice”. Here is the track from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, showing no sudden direction changes, just a long, gradual sweep: http://www.noaawatch.gov/2008/ike.php

In my opinion, the only thing LSFM could have done better was to have reinforced the building sides (including erecting a diversion barrier to reduce the impact force of the surge)… but this needed to have been done long before Ike ever formed, as it would take quite a while to do.

In the situation, they used their several-days warning to evacuate all flyable aircraft, and to do what they could with the remaining exhibits… which was not all that much, considering the very large storm surge.

My friend hasn’t gotten back to me with word of how his apartment fared (but he DID call as he was going to work the evening of the 15th), but since it was just north of the intersection of 330 & 146, I expect it got a lot of water.

However – just to take JDK to task about the UK having no extreme weather – in Jan 1956 the wind at Saxa Vord was sufficent (120+ mph) … The anemometer at Saxa Vord was especially modified to measure twice the normal range of wind speeds. In 1962, however, it recorded a wind-speed of 177 mph – and was then itself blown away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Multiple exclamation marks don’t increase the wind-force I hope! 😉 Fair comment that there are, every 50 years or so, so big blows in the UK, and some places are very windy. How they compare to the annual hurricane cycles or bush /wildfire seasons faced by many places, or earthquakes, cyclones etc. I leave to the reader to decide. I stand by the fact that the UK has one of the world’s most benign climates, leading people in the UK to think that’s ‘normal’, and the rest of the world’s is as safe as the UK from natural disasters. It isn’t and like the people of Galveston and Pompeii, a lot of humanity has to take tough guesses as to future chances.

Arguing about the weather, like telling the LSFM staff they should’ve done this or that, is essentially pointless, though. Clearly they’ve done what they could, and are well into clean up. I wish them the best of luck. It could have been worse. It is bad enough.

LSFM and Houston, hurricane Ike

Bager,

disagree with what? that LSFM was not responsive enough?

well if you friend went to north houston, he only got away from the storm surge. I hope his house was okay in Baytown!!!! we had bad winds up hereon the north side. the night after Ike hit, we had another rain storm that dumped 12″ on our area. To add insult to injury. LOL

I recall Galveston was bracing for the big storm surge expected as Ike was to pass under Galveston and headed for Corpus Christi. Then the storm swung north.

Still, from Sep 11 warning and evacuation notice, I think LSFM flew out just about everything that was airworthy before Ike got close enough on the 12/13th to make flying dangerous. Besides with an evacuation going on, getting down ONTO Galveston was difficult.

Regardless, they did the best they could.

Galveston, Houston had minimal notice of the hurricane coming. It changed direction northward with little notice.

I disagree.

A close friend lives in Baytown, and his reports to me said that they were on “evacuation alert” (be ready in case you have to evacuate) for 2 days before the evacuation order was actually given… which was over 24 hours before the storm surge hit.

He had gone to relatives in north Houston around noon Friday, Sept. 12.

The area had been preparing since Ike left Cuba on the 9th for at least a “graze”, and possibly a direct hit.

Galveston City Manager Steve LeBlanc issued a mandatory evacuation order late Wednesday (10th) for the low lying west end of Galveston Island. Later, the mandatory evacuation order was extended to the entire island of Galveston, as well as low-lying areas around Houston, Texas.

On September 11, at 8:19 p.m. (CDT), the National Weather Service in Houston/Galveston, TX issued a strongly worded bulletin, regarding storm surge along the shoreline of Galveston Bay. The bulletin advised residents living in single-family homes in some parts of coastal Texas may face “certain death” if they do not heed orders to evacuate.

Ike made U.S. landfall at Galveston, Texas, on September 13 at 2:10am. It had maintained a nearly straight course since Sept. 10, and only turned north (then northeast) during the day of the 13th… AFTER it made landfall.

Considerable warning, and for the exact area Ike hit. I’d say it was well expected, and Galveston was well warned.

LSFM

The museum is up on grade a bit above the normal ground level…

Galveston, Houston had minimal notice of the hurricane coming. It changed direction northward with little notice. I was in California on business and caughtthe next to last flight into IAH. Very erie to see IAH with only about 6 airplanes there and no one inside…

Museum members have to make decsions in that short time span when the storm really approaches on what to do for home, family, and the museum all at once. Evacuation out of Houston with about 5 million people, wellllll……
But it was better organized than last time.

Not knowing where the storm may go, range of aircraft… where do you fly to get out of the way? Not always cut and dry decisions… and how do you get home to your family with evacuation traffic flowing like rivers on all roads out?

I live 80-90 miles inland from Galveston and was in the direct path. winds were clocked even north of us at 105mph at a small USCG station on Lake Conroe dam/levee.
I lost a good 5 ft of roof down to the rafters and a good bit of bricks to a neighbors oak tree. But we were lucky compared to others. Great neighbors came to aid in the storm. It’s amaznig the LSFM hangar held up to the pounding it took from water, waves and winds.

Ike was a category 4 or 5 storm as far as storm surge levels… The storm surges came well before the winds or Ike did…. and were 15-20 ft in places and very destructive. Then the hurricane hit.

On the bright side, the museum hangars held the planes in!!!!! and follow on help from Collings, US Navy and others has arrived, per their website updates.

Remember several years ago, FLorida got hit by about 5 or 6 hurricanes. 4 of those passed over the Orlando area, well inland, where there were many vintage aircraft sites….

You can’t fight Mother Nature…

Cudos for the museum for doing all they could before and doing all they can afterward.

They are a VERY dedicated group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is hard to imagine the level of devastation to Galveston. And to areas inland but near water like Galveston Bay…

link to info on Galveston airport also shows a MIG and other aircraft
http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2008/080917galveston.html?WT.svl=FlashHP1

some other pics, some of some aircraft also, to give you an idea as to what the LSFM faced:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/09/the_short_but_eventful_life_of.html

http://www.tpicks.com/pictures%20people%20have%20sent%20me.html

It does not look good. 🙁

http://www.lsfm.org/ikephotogallery.html

Galveston’s airfield is listed at 6′, so with a 12′ surge…..let me check my math, 6′ in the museum….sounds about right for what they are saying.:(

Kermit’s outfit, around 200 feet I think, couldn’t find a solid number for his spot. I think ALL of London and it’s museums are at quite a bit more of a threat than he is at this location.;)

Kermit’s collection had been down on the Florida east coast and was badly damaged by a hurricane. He moved and set up at his current location, on high ground,

That would be 6, 7ft above sea level? 😉

As Bruce pointed out, some of it depends on where you site your museum; another reason for UK enthusiasts to be grateful, because the UK doesn’t actually have any really extreme weather (and don’t talk about a bit of rain and a bit of flooding as ‘extreme’ – it isn’t).

I, too, am glad that none of the museum staff were killed/injured. I am a retired Met Man with rellies in Florida so I look at ‘the Met’ with more than the average interest.
However – just to take JDK to task about the UK having no extreme weather – in Jan 1956 the wind at Saxa Vord was sufficent (120+ mph) to lift a whole Type 80 Radar antenna and its trunnions/running-gear off its mountings and dumped the whole lot 50 yds downwind!! The anemometer at Saxa Vord was especially modified to measure twice the normal range of wind speeds. In 1962, however, it recorded a wind-speed of 177 mph – and was then itself blown away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HTH
Resmoroh

Galveston is indeed a in a VERY exposed position. Though this is the worst storm to hit there in a bit over a hundred years…have to keep that in context. It is, or at least was, a very popular tourist destination and thus people went to it. If you have no people going to your museum, it will eventually be wiped out as sure as a hurricane strike!

Kermit’s collection had been down on the Florida east coast and was badly damaged by a hurricane. He moved and set up at his current location, on high ground, 70 miles in from the coast, and near the big tourist attractions in Orlando. A safer location for sure, but you never know when a flood, tornado, fire, earthquake, or city council will strike!

My heart goes out for the folks down there. Not just the museum, the whole area is devastated. My folks still aren’t home in Houston, my daughter way up in Ohio has not had power for the last couple days thanks to Ike. 8-10 inches of rain and high winds went inland 500 miles…….just where is a safe place?

Of course, it depends on just where you site your museum….

Bruce

Indeed, Makes me wonder why the hell Kermit sited all his stuff where he did..

This would probably not be a good time to mention the argument that unique survivors should be preserved by not flying them, as they are safer on the ground in a museum, would it?

Thought not. I’ll get me coat…

Interesting point. One of the museum’s aircraft was damaged in a landing accident (their Hawker Hurricane) and was thus unable to be flown out as a result. The damaged wing was elsewhere, so is OK. The rest of the aircraft was caught in the museum.

Another, their big, rare PB4Y-2 (N3739G, 59819) hasn’t yet had its restoration and rebuild finished, so also couldn’t be flown out. Any aircraft receiving maintenance couldn’t… so ‘airworthy’ is not a full answer.

As Bruce pointed out, some of it depends on where you site your museum; another reason for UK enthusiasts to be grateful, because the UK doesn’t actually have any really extreme weather (and don’t talk about a bit of rain and a bit of flooding as ‘extreme’ – it isn’t).

My sympathies to the people of the LSFM and those so hard hit in the area. Let’s hope that Texan toughness can help.

Regards,

Galveston airport is a very quiet airport. There is a lot of helicopter movements in the morning and afternoon, suporting the oil rigs. It did not have a lot of aircraft parked up and tied down like most American G.A. fields. I was a little disapointed in that because I was going to bore you all pictures of them!
The LSMF was a beutiful little museum and hopefully will be again.

Rgds Cking

Why not fly out the private/light aircraft that scatterd around ?

I guess many owners had to choose between moving their aircraft or moving their families/possessions, trying to protect their houses etc. A tough call, but I’d certainly put the welfare of my nearest and dearest way above trying to save any aircraft I might own.

And, compared to other US airports I’ve seen, this shot would seem to suggest a great many aircraft had been evacuated, normally stateside ramps are chock-a-block with GA types.

FYI there are photos of the damage inside the museum on another thread on this board – the devastation must be totally soul destroying for all involved at LSFM Wind damage is one thing, but flood damage takes ages to rectify, as my townsfolk here in Lewes UK know only too well.

Hang in there guys!

Paul F

Why not fly out the private/light aircraft that scatterd around ?

Of course, it depends on just where you site your museum….

Bruce

This would probably not be a good time to mention the argument that unique survivors should be preserved by not flying them, as they are safer on the ground in a museum, would it?

Thought not. I’ll get me coat…

This is a good reason to keep them flying as the planes that DID get out of LSFM were the ones that were flyable!

Ryan

Apparently they did not lose their F-100 off it’s perch. Found a link to an aerial pic of the wreckage of their airfield. Some of the smaller hangars around them were really smashed!

Here is the link to the aerial shot. The LSFM is the L shaped building just left of the amusement park.

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/storms/ike/geo-C25886033.jpg

Very sad:(
It will be a long road home for the survivors!