Help to identify a C82 Packet

The Varsity was a nosewheel aircraft ,I think you mean Valetta which was a tail dragger.

Quite right, I stand corrected.
After poking around the one at Flixton, I was very surprised to see its deck split by a wingspar…not very practical for a military transport, and rather unexpected for one of that (fairly) late vintage.

I hope my comments didn’t offend anyone, I have a great respect of the UK industry, it’s just that seeing a Jeep slung under a plane at that late of date shows a weakness in the RAF inventory.
Especially for a country that was still maintaining colonial responsibilities.

The RAF’s lack of drive on freighters

Puzzling that they didn’t take to the Bristol Freighter….heavy para-drops would have still been a problem with nose-loading though…..wasn’t the C-130 order to replace a cancelled Hawker Siddeley STOL jet drive-on combat transport the AW681 see link

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/AW_681b.jpg

The RAF seemed to get on with the Hastings whereas BOAC couldn’t get rid of their Hermes airliner equivalents fast enough, even if they had a nosewheel!

The Varsity was a nosewheel aircraft ,I think you mean Valetta which was a tail dragger.

Re: the Hastings…and having a Jeep as an external load:
Why didn’t the RAF have a modern drive-on tactical military airlifter before the Herk?
(Well, they did have the Beverly and a few Argosys…)
The UK aero industry of the 50s was certainly capable….but their military transports (aside from those developed as airliners) seem a fairly pathetic lot.
The Hastings and Varsity were taildraggers well into the age of nosewheels.

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Longshot Jeeps were dropped not pushed out. This photo shows a Jeep prepared for dropping on its beam which is about to be winched up and attached to the underside of the Hastings. The supply container on the ground would be one of 8 that could be attached to the side of the beam. Two Jeeps or a Jeep and gun (6 pounder or 75mm Pack How) could be carried and dropped along with the paras.
Aerodynamic it wasn’t, which why they tried the paratechnicon which was no better.

Aeronut 2008…..Wise to stick to C82 and C119!….I’d like to see a photo of a jeep coming out of the side of a Hastings…..I worked on the fringes of the civil air-cargo industry in the Seventies so I find the gradual steps to the modern palletised/containerised systems interesting

Simon Beck…..its puzzling that Fairchild stuck with both names for so long…..did they ever use Warthog in their publicity for the A-10?

Longshot:
Those adverts you posted are very interesting and the
name switch to Flying Boxcar with the engine upgrade
to Wright Cyclones is very interesting to note. Thats
something to take into consideration alright.
I have the flight manuals for the C-82 and C-119B / C / R4Q-1
and none of them mention Flying Boxcar anywhere in the manual,
Packet is briefly mentioned in the C-82 one though.

I think this is a similar situation to another Fairchild product,
the A-10 Thunderbolt II, everyone just calls it the “warthog”
full stop. I think the same happened with the “Boxcar”.

The Marines never flew the C-82 but there were 18 SC-82A
conversions as SAR aircraft. The Marines did fly the R4Q-1
(C-119B) and the R4Q-2 (C-119F), many were based in
Japan and most were retired by 1959 or so.
Those still in service after 1962 became C-119G’s.

Chuck Lunsford is a retired C-119 radio op. and an expert in
C-119 operations. The C-119CF was an unofficial designation
for C-119C’s with F upgrades but retaining their P&W engines.
Only a few were converted and all were based in W. Germany
I think.
Most C-119B / C / F versions were upgraded to the definitive
C-119G variant by the late 50’s including the 35 sold to Canada.

My main interest is in the civil service of the C-82 / C-119, there
were some very colourful liveries on those old birds, especially
the Latin American ones.

Simon Beck
www.uswarplanes.net

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Longshot may be interested in in the Title of this (British) Air Publication I have in my collection.
It could also be titled “How to drop a Medium Stressed Platform whilst waiting for British industry to test the Beverley”
It also expalins wht the only heavy drops carried out during the Suez invasion were Jeeps dropped by Hastings using a system that had officially been withdrawn from service!

Packets and Flying Boxcars

Simon….I’ve found your uswarplanes site very useful…..I’ve posted some Fairchild ads earlier in the thread which suggest that Fairchild abandoned the name Packet for the C-119 about 1952….do you know of any original documentation (aircraft purchase orders or manuals) showing how the USAF applied the name’ Flying Boxcar’ especially for the early P&W R4360 powered models. I think the best way now to avoid confusion is to just use the C-number , C-82 or C-119.

Some questions arising from internet origins….did the US Marines ever have C-82s (I dont think they did)?….were any C-119A/B/C P&W models re-engined to C-119F equivalent (Wright R3350)? (Chuck Lunsford mentions an unofficial C-119CF model on Ruud leeuws propliner page, but I don’t think he’s suggesting a re-engine….Mick

Sorry I’m late to this thread but I thought I’d contribute what
I know about this aircraft since its a speciality subject for me.

The OFFICIAL name of the C-82 was Packet, this is after
the 18th & 19th century British “Packet Ships” that carried freight
to the Far East and the USA. The nickname of “Flying Boxcar” was
the UNOFFICIAL name tagged by the press / pilots etc. It was
in fact printed on the side of the XC-82 in some pics as was mentioned
earlier in this thread. The name refers to the cargo hold being similar
to a railroad boxcar.

When the C-119 came along the OFFICIAL name to Fairchild was still
Packet (the original prototype designation of the C-119 was in fact
the XC-82B). But the USAF decided there were enough changes to warrant
a new designation to C-119 and a new OFFICIAL name of Flying Boxcar.

The USMC kept Packet as the official name for their R4Q-1 / -2 aircraft.
Although a USMC C-119 Radio Op I spoke too said they were never called
that among crews etc. that he flew with.
Other military names known to these aircraft are Packplane (XC-120),
Skyvan (XC-119H), Shadow (AC-119G) and Stinger (AC-119K).

In civilian guise the C-82 was known by the marketing brand names
as Jet-Packet and Skytruck. Skytruck being used by
Elleston Trevor in his 1964 book “The Flight of the Phoenix”.
The company that converted them was Steward-Davis Inc. They
also did C-119 conversions branded as C-119 Jet-Pak and Stolmaster.
A lot of these were used in the US as fire-bombers etc., especially Hawkins & Powers
and Hemet valley.

224 C-82 Packets were built – type (N6887C) used in the 1965 version
of Flight of the Phoenix with James Stewart.
1185 C-119 Flying Boxcar / Packets were built – type (N15501) used in the
2004 version of Flight of the Phoenix with Dennis Quaid.

Kaiser-Frazer built 71 C-119F’s before contracts were cancelled, the remaining
88 were completed by Fairchild but retained their Kaiser msn’s. At the same
time Fairchild also picked up the Kaiser C-123 contract going on to build
over 300 of the C-123B Provider, improving the design from the outset.

6 complete C-82 Packets survive today with a few more fuselages around.

Cheers
Simon Beck
www.uswarplanes.net

Yes, the colour shot was still taken at Lancaster, California.

C-82 , Beaulieu August 9 1946 FLIGHT magazine

FAO aeronut2008 ….A fresh scan from a bound copy of the August 22 issue makes the serial look like 44-22993 from the first batch of C-82s

Fairchild Packet vs Flying Boxcar ads 1945-1954

Fairchild used ‘flying boxcar’ as an attribute to the Packet aircraft right from the beginning, and appear to have dropped the Packet name as late as 1952

see http://www.flickr.com/photos/74784995@N00/sets/72157607328090308/

Charles E Brown C-119 Farnborough 1953

From Camera Above the Clouds Vol I ……51-2611 a C-119C is recorded at Farnborough 1956/1957 in the Scramble Airshow Archive…..presumably the photo-ship at that time

As a result of discussion on this forum it appears that the flying shot is of a C-119C probably 51-2611 on loan to the UK from 1953 and the ground shot is an earlier photo of a C-82

Longshot no probs with the thread drift I’m finding it educational as well as entertaining. Its much more fun to start a thread that drifts like this one rather than have it stillborn.

I agree with Longshot….
The USN/USMC never had operational C-82s. (I say operational in case someone produces a photo of one in Marine test markings). Early 119s yes, no Packets. Absolutley not in the Lloyd bok on the aircraft or the USN Putnam book.

BTW: IIRC, the late Royal Frey was a curator at the USAFM, and a former P-38 pilot.

Packets and Boxcars

First apologies to AERONUT 2008 for riding my hobby horse through your thread..

Secondly, BAGER1968…I was going to ask the source of that data, but I realised that it is Wikipedia…..one or two errors in there, I think…I shall have to dig out my Wikipedia password and do some mods!….the empty weight of the C-82 was about32,500lbs and the useful load was rather less than 42,000lbs!!
I’ve never heard of the US Navy receiving C-82s…I thought it was 39 P&W R4360 powered R4Q-1 (C-119B) followed by 58 Wright R3350 powered R4Q-2 (C-119F) ( and all for the US Marines?)…certainly the first batch were called Packets and I think the name stuck for the second batch ,too
Its a matter of opinion but the C-82 seemed a competent squadron aircraft, and in one online paper by Royal D Frey from 1971 (Google ‘John W R Taylor Packet’) there are criticisms of the stability of the early C-119s compared with the C-82

The Putnam USN Aircraft from 1968 has 41 R4Q-1 (P&W powered C-119C) as the US Marines first batch

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Having started this thread I’ve been keeping an eye on its tangential development. However I’ve also been browsing the Flight International site and look what I’ve found – the very beast I was after.

Lancaster, California.

Bager…
Where was the color photo taken?
It’s not Pima…and I don’t think it’s the old Hawkins & Powers Collection in Wyoming (I don’t believe they had a Argosy).