Greetings All,
May I ask please for a bit of assistance from you knowledgeable lot? I wonder if anyone might be able to briefly outline the roles and responsibility of aircraft design, testing and evaluation in the UK during the immediately pre- and War years (say 1936-45, or such)? In Germany, such various testing was concentrated basically at one facility (Rechlin), to include wind tunnel and aerodynamic evaluation. I believe a similar case existed in France with the Service Technique Aeronautique. In the USSR there were three major testing organisations, and a host of specialist bureaus (dealing specifically with engines, weaponry, materials, etc).
Now, my understanding of the situation in Britain is that aerodynamic testing and theoretical development were undertaken at the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough. Was this establishment under civilian direction, or was it an MoD asset, or both? What was the REA’s exact remit?
With regards to testing military aircraft (what about civil aircraft?), I believe the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (A&AEE) at Martlesham Heath (and later at Boscombe Down) was the main government body involved. I am led to believe that this establishment was part of the MoD, no? Was it part of the RAF? I can see from the various historical documents that quite a lot of testing of new designs was actually undertaken by the aircraft’s manufacturer.
Could anyone out there kindly summarise the roles and remit of these two organisations? Are there other components to this question of testing aviation designs of which I am unaware?
Cheers.
By: Rocketeer - 28th August 2008 at 20:58
May I remind Rocketeer that the work he does now was carried out by the AFEE (Airbone Forces Experimental Establishment) until 1950 and not the A&AEE .
Likewise A&AEE didn’t do any testing on the assault gliders like Horsa and Hamilcar. (RAE and AFEE)
The military also had there own development units, and to a lesser extent still do.
Consider myself reminded thanx:)…but I did come from FW old chap!!!:)
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th August 2008 at 17:53
May I remind Rocketeer that the work he does now was carried out by the AFEE (Airbone Forces Experimental Establishment) until 1950 and not the A&AEE .
Likewise A&AEE didn’t do any testing on the assault gliders like Horsa and Hamilcar. (RAE and AFEE)
The military also had there own development units, and to a lesser extent still do.
By: Rocketeer - 28th August 2008 at 11:04
snip
The A&AEE were military and for a long time came under MoD PE control. they were responsible for testing and passing of varoius bits of kit and the final aircraft – usually with the ultimate aim of clearing the aircraft for full service and squadron use. This work was carried out closely with the Empire Test Pilots School (ETPS).
snip.
A&AEE has always been a civillian/military establishment (witness glove & gauntlett on unit badge etc)….
ETPS is purely a training organisation training up test pilots and flight test engineers. Trials work is done by what was A&AEE (now QinetiQ iX).
A&AEE was at Martlesham Heath pre-war moving to Boscombe Down in 39 as it was deemed a safer place from bombs etc. The work of A&AEE has been conducted at BD ever since though under different names. BD prides itself on independent flight test/test acceptance and fitness for purpose and always has.
basic history of how the research and other establishments have changed is on the QinetiQ.com website.
By: alertken - 28th August 2008 at 10:33
Civil and military certification pre-1940 was by the Air Ministry and its research establishment, RAE. May 1940, Ministry of Aircraft Production, took over the scientific civil servants in A.M. Establishments. All UK military Aero was certified there, broadly as research at RAE, proof testing at A&AEE, backed up at a myriad of specialist sites – Armament, Gas Turbine (once Whittle’s Power Jets), Rocket, Radar, Proof & Experimental (bangers). From 1946 the Ministry’s name changed, often – MoS, MoA, MinTech, MAS, MoD(PE), DPA, DRA, and is now QinetiQ, a commercial firm, sustaining much the same military role.
1944/45, the new UN set up ICAO in Montreal to set standards for civil air transport, inc. the processes of airworthiness certification, to be divorced from the military and from direct Ministerial influence. US created (to be) FAA; UK put it in the Air Registration Board, then CAA, then EU-wide JAA, now European Aviation Safety Agency.
So, in UK: RAE (now QinetiQ) does Pure Research; industry does Applied Research and product design/development; QinetiQ (A&AEE as was) does military User Acceptance Testing; (ex-CAA)EASA ensures industry has met UN/ICAO civil certification requirements, and issues a Type Certificate valid throughout its Members (27 EU States plus assorted Switzerlands), and generally reciprocally recognised by other sovereign Aviation Safety Authorities.
By: pagen01 - 28th August 2008 at 09:33
The RAE at Farnborough was a government run civilian organisation under the remit of the Air Ministry. Development and trials was mainly for the military (RAF, RNAS & AAC) under MoD PE requirements, as they had required the rapidly advancing technology and its testing the most, this usually done in secrecy.
However civil aircraft and their componants were also tested and trialled and I’m assuming this was done on behalf of the government controlled Ministry of Supply, Civil Aviation Authority and various Ministries of work and technologies that have existed.
The A&AEE were military and for a long time came under MoD PE control. they were responsible for testing and passing of varoius bits of kit and the final aircraft – usually with the ultimate aim of clearing the aircraft for full service and squadron use. This work was carried out closely with the Empire Test Pilots School (ETPS).
There were also various other bodies for developing and testing more specific componants, such as the Royal Radar Establishment and National Gas Turbine Establishment.
In the mid 1990s there were major changes to these outfits, and I haven’t a clue how these agencies are run these days.
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August 28, 2008 at 8:58 am