FW190 in British markings at North Weald 1942? 43?

Have just re-read DaveF68’s post earlier in this thread and he stated that PM679 was at Farnborough before going to AFDU but that it didn’t fly with RAE until 2/7/43, or one day after your contact left!

I wonder if the station ORB (which should be at the National Archives) would give a definite date. You would think that an Fw 190 turning up might get a mention.

Peter

The tour commenced in early August 1943 and lasted about three months. He flew to many bases including North Weald,

That might be spot on. However, the picture was given to me (indirectly) by a pilot who left NW on leave July 1st 1943 and went to Transport Command, so he couldn’t have been there. Which leaves two options:

He is not the photographer and someone else took the pic
The FW190 came to North Weald prior to July 1st 1943

Not sure if I’m allowed to mention this but about six years ago I did a book on the Fw 190 for Airlife (Combat Legend series).

We included about a dozen photos of Faber’s 190 after it had been painted up as MP499, plus two of PE882 and one of PN999. There was also a nice one of PM679 flying low alongside a P-47D of the 4th FG.

PE882 was w/o 13/10/44 in a crash that killed F/L E.R. Lewendon of 1426 Flt. The last record of PN999 that I found was a report of it being in store at 47 MU Sealand in November 1947.

Peter

Thanks for that Peter, very interesting stuff! Incidentally there is an image of PM679 taken at Kenley in September 1943 on page 18 of “War Prizes” by Phil Butler…

Cheers

Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Regarding the identity of the Fw 190 I agree with DaveF68 that it is PM679.

A few years ago I wrote a book that looked at testing WWII single-engined fighters and during my research was privileged to meet and interview Len Thorne who, after a tour on Spitfires, spent three years at AFDU flying with the likes of Allan Wright, Wimpy Wade and Bill Waterton. One of his jobs was to take a captured Fw 190 ‘on tour’ to various stations so that it could be seen at close quarters and flown in practice dogfights. This was in PM679 which Len regarded as ‘his aeroplane’.

The tour commenced in early August 1943 and lasted about three months. He flew to many bases including North Weald, Hornchurch, Kenley, Biggin Hill and Tangmere. There were also trips further afield to Ibsley and Exeter and even as far as Eshott in Northumberland. Len normally flew with an escort of two Spitfires but this was increased to four after he was nearly shot down over Hornchurch. The squadron C.O. involved didn’t open fire but Len admitted to being quite scared!

He also did comparative trials between PM679 and Spitfire XIV RB179 on 18/3/44. His last flight in PM679 was 24/6/44 but shortly after take off he had a major engine failure and only just managed to get it back on the airfield. It appears PM679 did not fly again and was used for spares for PE882 and PN999.

Len ended up with 80 sorties in the 190 amounting to around 100 hours so he must have had more time on the 190 than any other British pilot.

Sadly I have just discovered that Len died a few weeks ago at the age of 88.

Hope this is of interest

Peter

Back home with me books and agree with DaveF68. 1st and 2nd are PM679 whilst the third was PN999…

@ DCK and ShabbyAbbey – do you have any objection to my posting your images (with full source credits) over on the LEMB? We have threads on both birds so these images would make welcome additions to the ongoing discussions there…

Cheers

Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Thanks!

MP499 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-3 – W.Nr.313 – single chevron of III./JG2 – struck off charge September 1943
PE822 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-4/U8 – W.Nr.7155 – H+ of II./SKG10 – crashed October 1944
PM679 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-4/U8 – W.Nr.5843 – “Red 9” of I./SKG10 – used for spares July 1944
PN999 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-5/U8 – W.Nr.2596 – “White 6” of I./SKG10 – despatched to unknown destination July 1946

It’s not MP499 as it had the earlier style of fin top without the antenna, I don’t think it’s PE882 as it had a distinctive camo pattern on the fin and rear canopy.

I think it is PM679 – it had similar camo scheme, noticably over the cowling and the upward sweep of the demarcation on the rudder (Downwards on PN999) – also the unpainted/not over painted strip (LUftwaffe paint?) on the upper fin – that was absent on PN999.

PM679 landed in error at RAF Manston on 20th May 1943. It was first at RAE Farnborough from 22/5/43 until 17/7/43 (First flew at RAE on 2/7/43). It then went to the AFDU at Wittering until it was damaged beyond repair on25/6/44. Delivered to 1426 Flight on 11/7/44 for spares use

Could it have been this one? Tangmere, Summer1943? But I hadn’t recalled RAF markings. Thought someone had lost his way!!

I think it is – PM679 was the only one of the three A-4/5s to have a light spinner.

Captured Eagle visiting the USAAF 353rd FG.

Shabbyabbey
www.55th.org
www.station131.co.uk

That’s PN999 (obviously!!!) – note that it has a two-tone cowl ring, where as the one at Tangmere has a light ring all the way round. Also, the Tangmere one has a light spinner.

BTW, the HIllmans are different – note the position of the F11 in relation to the speed/RAF Serial no.

Abbey – would that have been the one landing at Tangmere – do you think?

Nice photo that DCK, thanks for postin g it 🙂

I’m not at home at the moment (sat in a motorway services on the M1 using my laptop) so don’t have my books to hand. However, these are brief details from a thread on the LEMB concerning Luftwaffe aircraft allocated to the Royal Aircraft Establishment. Fw190’s listed are:

MP499 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-3 – W.Nr.313 – single chevron of III./JG2 – struck off charge September 1943
PE822 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-4/U8 – W.Nr.7155 – H+ of II./SKG10 – crashed October 1944
PM679 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-4/U8 – W.Nr.5843 – “Red 9” of I./SKG10 – used for spares July 1944
PN999 – Focke-Wulf Fw190A-5/U8 – W.Nr.2596 – “White 6” of I./SKG10 – despatched to unknown destination July 1946

It appears that none survived much past 1946…

Cheers

Peter D EVans
LEMB Administrator

There were a couple of early Fw190s on strength at that time – give me a day or so and I’ll might id which it is

Not this one then…?

Captured Eagle visiting the USAAF 353rd FG.

Shabbyabbey
www.55th.org
www.station131.co.uk

It really does look like the same aeroplane.

Looks very much like the FW190 discussed on this very same forum in 2005.
See http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58169

Richard

i am quite friendly up at NW museum if you like i can ask them?

It would be of great interest to them

Indeed do!

It would be of much interests to know more about the photo. The original writing beneath the picture just states that a FW190 in British markings came to North Weald. My guess is summer 1943.

The Spits in the picture are of either 332 or 331 squadron. Propably 332. They’re MkIX’s so it puts the picture after they got these machines, somewhere early 43 I think.

Didnt an FW190 land at Pembrey in 1942? Perhaps this is the machine?

That story is told by several Norwegian pilots, so you might be very much right.

Would this machine have been part of the Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight from Collyweston – Northants (1426????)

Didnt an FW190 land at Pembrey in 1942? Perhaps this is the machine?

TT

Could it have been this one? Tangmere, Summer1943? But I hadn’t recalled RAF markings. Thought someone had lost his way!!

The Hillman looks the same!!

= Tim

PS How would we have had one at that time?

i am quite friendly up at NW museum if you like i can ask them?

It would be of great interest to them

what a cracking picture….

can’t help much on time of shot (4 bladed spit on the right, MK IX ? – so later in 1942 onwards?)

its as if they had a race to see who could get there first and take it for a flight….