A question for pre-war Hawker experts

Arts wiv ooks.

http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number596.asp

As the caption on this link shows, I am wondering which aircraft are shown here (that is presumably the easy question) and, perhaps much more difficult, which squadron is it and where? All I know is that my father is in the picture, but I’m not even 100% sure which is him! He was 563828 Aircraft Apprentice (Halton) C.F.W. Langsdale, and went on during the war to serve with the Fleet Air Arm on HMS Eagle.

I think that they are a mix of Audax (or Hart)and Hart Trainer. The nearest one on the left is a T and on the second one on the right the gun trough is visible on the side. Both types have the early twin intakes on the cowl top and not found on Ospreys. Also no wing fold evidence and short lower stub struts found on Ospreys. Virtually the only distinguishing feature between the Audax and the Hart is the “hook” . An Audax is “an Art wiv a ook” as they used to say.

In the 30’s most FAA personel were RAF.

John

A question for pre-war Hawker experts

I’ll stick with Leuchars, but have to agree with Dave on the Hart…on closer scrutiny of photo sources, subtle differences discount the Osprey. Doh!!:o
Brian

A question for pre-war Hawker experts

Papa Lima, the mention of an airfield in Eastern Scotland somewhere,and in the 1930’s, would I suggest, be one of only two at that period, R.N.A.S Donibristle,and R.A.F Leuchars, both in Fife. Of the two, Leuchars would be my favoured choice.The majority of the other Scottish (naval) airfields in the east, and north-east were (in the main) constructed just after the outset of WW2. Leuchars has a history of RAF/RN mixed personnel: the Osprey would also be my suggested aircraft. I could be wrong….however!
Regards, Brian S.;)

Please, have a look at this Hawker Hart I with a similar exhaust
http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/hawker%20hart%20I.htm

Rgds
Martin

This is a Hart trainer!

Dave

Hawker aircraft would appear to be an Osprey. It’s the only one I know where the exhausts sweep under the wing, as in your pic.

Please, have a look at this Hawker Hart I with a similar exhaust
http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/hawker%20hart%20I.htm

Rgds
Martin

The reason i said the aircraft could be Hart trainers as the cowlings seem to be polished. The Osprey had light grey cowlings.

Dave

Hawker aircraft would appear to be an Osprey. It’s the only one I know where the exhausts sweep under the wing, as in your pic. The Demon exhaust only come half way down the fuselage as does the Audax. Nothing much but it may help.

Best Wishes.
Robert.

The a/c shown at St Merryn seems to be an Albacore; several of which which were on the strength of 774S. an armament training unit, from 9/1940 until 6/1944. The squadron was based at St Merryn between 17/9/1940 until 24/10/1944 when it moved to Rattray.

regards

DaveW

My mentioning HMS Eagle may be a red herring, since this photo was taken much earlier than the others that I put up on the Time Capsules site, which all show him surrounded by Royal Navy personnel. This picture however shows 100% RAF personnel, and I do remember him mentioning an airfield in Eastern Scotland somewhere. If he is the one I think I recognise on the picture, he doesn’t appear to have any rank stripes, and I think his AA entry passed out in 1928, so it would be in the early 30s.
Incidentally information on the other pictures of Royal Navy Squadrons on the Time Capsules web site would be of great interest to me too, such as 774 Sqn here:
http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number595.asp.

In conjunction with HMS Eagle the Hawker Osprey is only mentioned as a prewar aircraft …. ?
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ships/Eagle1.html

I am fairly sure that there were two Hawker Hart variants that had the “downgturned” exhausts, The Hawker Demon and the Hawker Osprey.

The Hawker Demon was a fighter version of the Hart. They were first issued to 23 Squadron R.A.F. early in 1931. The name “Demon” was used from 1932 onwards. This was the first two seater fighter to enter R.A.F. service since 1918.

As your father also served in the FAA it is possible that the aircraft in the photograph are actually Hawker Osprey’s. The Osprey was fitted with flotation and arrester gear and folding wings. The wheeled undercarriage could be exchanged for floats. The first production Osprey’s first appeared in 1932 and by 1933 were common throughout the FAA.

For more information on the Osprey see the following link.
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/hawker_osprey.php

The aircraft look to me like they could be Hart trainers, with the exhaust pipes runing down in front of the lower wing.