Alternate fuelled engines for warbirds.

Oh dear – that we should even be suggesting such a thing….

It was to a great extent the development of high octane, leaded fuel that enabled the leap in the power output and supercharging of aircraft engines in the 20s and 30s. It also has the right vapour pressure to work at altitude. The fuel is as much a part of the history as the Merlin and the sound it makes.

…..or have the environmental extremists succeeded with their greenwashing?

Interesting question, if someone had told me 30 or 40 years ago that people would in effect be building new Spitfires at the start of the 21st centuary, I would have questioned the individual’s sanity!

One hundred years ago, man walking on the moon within six decades would have been viewed with incredulity!

Who knows what people will do.

WF:diablo::diablo:

Butanol?

To paraphrase from the Wiki, at 85% strength it can be used as a direct replacement in gasoline engines without the same modifications as ethanol. Also, it offers nearly the same octane energy as gasoline. It can be produced as a biofuel by fermenting organic matter, including microorganisms (perhaps algae or such.)

But the real issue is who’s going to finance the millions needed to develop a avaition/warbird compatible fuel to power a couple of hundred warbirds so they can fly for the enjoyment of anoraks?
Or…
who’s doing to spend millions to re-engineer 60 year old engines for the same limited market?

Interesting question, if someone had told me 30 or 40 years ago that people would in effect be building new Spitfires at the start of the 21st centuary, I would have questioned the individual’s sanity!

One hundred years ago, man walking on the moon within six decades would have been viewed with incredulity!

Who knows what people will do.

WF:diablo::diablo:

Methanol is used as the fuel in the Indianapolis-style open wheel racing series in the U.S….so it’s capable of generating some serious horsepower…with a properly engineered engine.

But the real issue is who’s going to finance the millions needed to develop a avaition/warbird compatible fuel to power a couple of hundred warbirds so they can fly for the enjoyment of anoraks?
Or…
who’s doing to spend millions to re-engineer 60 year old engines for the same limited market?

Leave the bloody warbirds alone!!!
If you want to save the planet, buy a fuel efficient low polluting car…BTW: This weekend, my wife’s Mini got an overall 35 mpg this weekend on a fast trip over the Rocky Mountains…on the motorways it was getting 40 mpg..

Let’s not wreck historic aircraft for the sake of a few gallons of fuel.

Its unlikely to happen don’t you think? The calorific value of alternative fuels is just not enough for these high octane warbirds.

The Rolls-Royce ‘R’ engine in the S6 achieved a speed record in 1931 using a fuel mixture of 30% benzol 60% methanol and 10% acetone plus 5cc TEL per gallon.

Probably!-no idea what the difference is!

One you can drink, the other……………………….

Probably!-no idea what the difference is!

Methanol surely?

I’m sure there was a sea fury converted to run on ethanol at reno about 10 years ago

With all the hype lately about the high gas prices, I was wondering if there were any projects on the go to convert some of the piston engined warbirds to burn a cleaner type of fuel similiar to what is happening in the Automotive world?… Thoughts??

Its unlikely to happen don’t you think? The calorific value of alternative fuels is just not enough for these high octane warbirds. We currently live in the era where gasoline burning vehicles are common place. At some point its going to end, and different synthetic “fuels” or electric motors will be common place. I’d rather appreciate an original “static” Spitfire well looked after in a museum, than a re-engined turbo-prop version burning some vegi oil based goo.

The numbers of warbirds around the world are insignificant compared to the millions of “dirty” fuel burning cars. There would be zero return on investment in developing something for them alone.

I design car engines for a living – there is a lot of hot air surrounding this issue in the media, but the fact of the matter is, there is no such thing as a “green engine”. Even if you make a zero emissions car, you have already made its pollution contribution in advance in its design/testing/manufacture, that far outweighs its actual use.

Warbirds are owned by millionaires in the main. If fuel prices keep going up I’m sure they will just sell one of their Ferarri’s to compensate… 😉

I doubt if ethanol is actually cheaper to produce than petrol or diesel if you remove the duty and tax from pump prices. It has some environmental benefits but with current world food prices there are other ethical considerations.

There could also be problems with running old aircraft engines on ethanol which currently is mainly used at levels of 5% – 20% blended into regular petrol.

Heard half a discussion on the radio a few days ago about ethanol. Henry Ford’s Model T was designed to run on it – I didn’t hear what the differences are engine-wise though. The introduction of Prohibition in the ‘States caused petroleum use to leap ahead and become dominant.

Made from water, sugar and yeast it takes between 14 to 16 lbs of sugar to produce a litre of ethanol and thus can be produced a lot cheaper than oil-based fuels. Qld Spitty you are not far off the mark 🙂

Roger Smith.

Beeeeeerrrr!!!!!Well it is cheaper than fuel per litre here at the moment.