EE Lightning & The CAA)old thread 2008)

I see what you mean, i read it wrong sorry.:D

That is precisely what I’m saying Bubbles, 20 years ago there were serious attempts to fly one in the UK when spares etc were more plentiful. I visited the Lightning Flying Club twice back then when I was alot younger and it certainly seemed to me well set up and to have the back-up needed, but not the BAe support and thus the framework to operate under CAA regs.

This isn’t finger pointing by the way, as I’m normally fairly alone in thinking that the CAA does do the right things.

Surely all that was about 20+ years ago when a serious attempt was made to restore and fly a Lightning in the UK (and question might relate to SA a/c and spares), the BAe and CAA issue was the greater issue then, even if it might be the lesser issue now.

Not really, parts and engines are rarer nowadays than 20 years ago,Finding Getting support from the OEMs especially Bae and Rolls Royce would be huge stumbling blocks. I would imagine that following the accident in SA those companys would be less likely to support a return to flight. In simple terms it’s not going to happen over here, and it’s not because of the CAA

Technically wasnt my question – I was wondering why it appeared that 724 flew to binbrook under a civil reg that said it appears i was somewhat misinformed 😀

Yes, G-BTSY reg had to be removed, and she was returned to the mil register and flown back to Binbrook by BAe under COMA.

Putting aside the CAA for a minute you need to find a viable airframe with enough life left on it, then you need to find suitable engines that have life left in them and are ticketed.

…you will see that there’s no engines, few spares, no real viable airframes and a massive amount of maintenance involved, about 100 hours of servicing to every hour of flight.

Surely all that was about 20+ years ago when a serious attempt was made to restore and fly a Lightning in the UK (and question might relate to SA a/c and spares), the BAe and CAA issue was the greater issue then, even if it might be the lesser issue now.

Technically wasnt my question – I was wondering why it appeared that 724 flew to binbrook under a civil reg that said it appears i was somewhat misinformed 😀

This has been answered more times than i can remember, am i the only one who remembers the answers?:D

Putting aside the CAA for a minute you need to find a viable airframe with enough life left on it, then you need to find suitable engines that have life left in them and are ticketed (or whatever the correct term is, it’s late and i forget). If you have got that far you then need to find sufficient spares, Then of course you need to get support from the OEMs. Thats Bae Systems, Rolls Royce and a whole heap of others. not forgetting of course the absolute bucket load of money you will need, and thats going to be millions. When you have got that lot together then you can go see the CAA.

If you read back through the many threads on the subject of flying frightnings you will see that there’s no engines, few spares, no real viable airframes and a massive amount of maintenance involved, about 100 hours of servicing to every hour of flight.

Here is the guidance from the CAA http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP632.PDF

The only way that a Lightning will ever fly in the UK is if it was owned/operated by the MoD, and the only unit I can think that would fly such an aircraft here and now is the Empire Test Pilots’ School. Find a new use for the Lightning and that’s half the battle won, though the cost of rebuilding even a single example back to life means it’s a non-starter, unless you could secure sponsorship from someone for whom this would be the only way they could get close to owning a Lightning. Know anyone with – what – £20m to play with? And it wouldn’t be a F6 – probably a T-Bird.

If the caa wont allow a lightning to fly, then why was this allowed?

It was by special BAe dispensation, BAe are the design authority and if they won’t support the type the idea of it getting through the first CAA hurdles is nowt.

It was flown there under a military serial by a BAE test pilot, at a time when XS904 was still being used for (radar trials?) by BAE systems. Theres an interesting video about it on planestv.com

Sorry for this thread resurrection

Ive just been trawling the internet and found an interesting article detailing the ferry flight of XR724 to Binbrook as G-BTSY

If the caa wont allow a lightning to fly, then why was this allowed?

Of course it has an aviation authority. Its just got different rules to ours.

Aye, the difference being theirs has sensible rules, ours seem to be of the ‘let’s make a rule, at least we’ll have earned our pay’ mindset. It never seems to occur to them that the rule is unnesecessary at best or even counter productive or downright dangerous. Like the present government they will not accept they have got it wrong no matter how much proof is provided.

The aircraft belong to John Cauldwell. The cost of commissioning anything from industry is high.

Soon being the operative word here, the word on the grapevine is Mike’s airworthy spares stock wont hold out too much longer.

jeez, surely he’ll be able to comission new ones (though massively expensive)?

Best thing to do is get a ticket to S Afirca soon 😉

Soon being the operative word here, the word on the grapevine is Mike’s airworthy spares stock wont hold out too much longer.

I had heard over the years from various people (inc a couple of members of this forum) that when the Lightning was retired the RAF and the MOD had serious concerns over any private operation of them inc use by any rogue elements has there ever been any written proof of this or is it another urban legend type thing?

I myself would love to see another lightning fly but unless i go to SA i cant see it ever hapening here:( (unless it was done like XH558 and money and support was not an object).

curlyboy

Im here to help;)

By the way its 231, not 321 🙂

All the above may be true, but it doesn’t prevent Mike Beachy Head from operating four of them at Thunder City in South Africa. If he can do it then so can others. Perhaps South Africa doesn’t have a CAA organisation.

That’s only because Barry spend 10 years, a lot of money and a LOT of work trying to persaude the CAA to let him fly the Lightning in the UK, and eventually gave up and sold his toys to Mike Beachyhead and went out himself to SA to put them together and get them in the air.

They also have pretty much all the available remaining stock of lifed spares with the AALO probably having the rest.

And Thunder City has access to empty airspace. Remember, although the South African equivilent of the CAA allow the Lightnings to fly, they still impose a certain number of restrictions about overflying populated areas, and it’s only Cape Town Int’s immediate proximity to the coast and over water airspace that enables them to operate them in such a way.

The spares situation, costs, and the CAA and BAe mean that people do need to get their head around the fact that a Lightning in UK skies is just not going to happen ever again…….period.

CAA, is the problem the difference between the US, South Africa and us, is that they have thousands of square miles of desert and brushland, we dont. and the aviation authorities in their countries are more leniant when it comes to flying. Mr Mchenry (WL790 shackleton) was allowed to fly when the CAA would not allow it here (obviously there are many other points to take into consideration here) has anyone put together a real attempt to get one in the air again here? with a massive spares backup etc?

or would it be possible to have one fly in this country when its registered to a different country?