Hunter F5, WN957 – A/C history?

Hunter F5, WN957 – A/C history

Thanks one and all,

This is great stuff and I really appreciate it. In summary …….

10-11-54 Awaiting collection
24-11-54 C(A) RAE Farnborough
12-02-55 C(A) Transfer without charge
21-02-57 7407M RAF St. Athan as GI (reduced to cockpit section???)
02-04-57 Returned to RAF
by 1967 at 60MU, RAF Leconfield
May 1967 to 229 OCU, RAF Chivenor (modified as seat procedures trainer)
by early 1970s at ATC squadron in Essex [North Weald suggested](probable, but unconfirmed as yet)
by late 1970s at North Weald – Bill Miles Collection until 1989
by late 1980s at RAF Stafford (noted in ejection seat servicing bay)
by Feb 1995 at 2445 Sqn. ATC, Llanbedr (RAF Stafford issue note found in cockpit)
by 1998 at Maes Artro Village Museum of Bygone Days
Sept 02 to Welshpool
Sept 06 to South Molton, North Devon
June 07 to current owner, Stockport

Can anyone add any more?

Cheers
Mike

Well thanks chaps…really, I just came across it by chance but made a note of it anyway.

As to why it came from Leconfield, some MU’s were/are ‘parent’ units for any airframes or cockpits issued to ATC and CCF units in their area ( and that area could be a large one), so it’s possible that it was returned to 60 MU after it was no longer required – but this is just speculation.

The Hunter nose appears to have arrived at North Weald circa 1986 with a departure date in 1989 just after the death of Bill Miles. I am guessing that the cockpit was sent to Llanbedr for the establishment but found to be of no use. She was bought by Roy Jerman from Maes Artro.

PS While on the subject of cockpits, an entry for December 1966 states:

“Cadet Flt Sgt AG Cole, Marlborough College CCF, visited the Hunter Simulator 4th-7th. He is attempting to build a crude simulator in the forward fuselage section of an old Hunter aircraft.”

That “old Hunter aircraft” was the forward fuselage section of F.4 XE664 which became spare following the aircraft’s conversion to a T.8 for the FAA. It later became a T.75 for Singapore! After the squadrom at Marlborough College was disbanded in the 1980s the cockpit ended up in a field on a nearby farm. It was subsequently rescued by the Jet Age Museum and, following their accomodation problems, is still in storage by them as far as I know.

I knew that this one rang a bell but didn’t want to post until I had dug out the information that I knew I had – somewhere.

Last year at the PRO I was looking at the 229 OCU Chivenor ORB, and among the entries for May 1967 is the following:

” The cockpit of Hunter 7407M was transported from RAF Leconfield to RAF Chivenor by Chief Technician Wooley accompanied by a small working party. On arrival here this team spent one week from the 1st May to 8th May modifying the cockpit in accordance with the instructions issued by Squadron Leader J.R.Norris the Chief Ground Instructor. This sectioned cockpit will in future be used to instruct and check student piolts on their ejection drills.”

This suggests that the work was carried out by a party from 60MU, but gives no indication as to whether 60 MU had previously ‘owned ‘the cockpit, or had collected it from somewhere else. Perhaps Wrecks and Relics has the answer?

HTH

Wonderful stuff! These are exactly the sort of hard facts we need in this sort of detective work.

It raises even more questions though. It suggests that WN957 was already just a cockpit section before it got to Chivenor. So when/where did that happen? At St. Athan when it became a GIA? Or later?

1967 is quite late, so where/what was it up to for the previous 10 years? And what was it doing at Leconfield?

So, the updated stab at a history goes like this by my reckoning,

10-11-54 Awaiting collection
24-11-54 C(A) RAE Farnborough
12-02-55 C(A) Transfer without charge
21-02-57 7407M RAF St. Athan as GI (reduced to cockpit section???)
02-04-57 Returned to RAF
by 1967 at 60MU, RAF Leconfield
May 1967 to 229 OCU, RAF Chivenor (modified as seat procedures trainer)
by early 1970s at ATC squadron in Essex (probable, but unconfirmed as yet)
by late 1970s at North Weald
by late 1980s at Stafford (noted in ejection seat servicing bay)
date? TEE Llanbedr? (unconfirmed)
by Feb 1995 at 2445 Sqn. ATC, Llanbedr
by 1998 at Maes Artro Village Museum of Bygone Days
Sept 06 (not 02 as previously stated) to South Molton, North Devon
June 07 to current owner

Can anyone help with the gaps?

Why wouldn’t anyone believe me ?

Depends on what evidence you had to support the claim doesn’t it? If you know more then it seems to me this thread is a good place to post it.

Now Discendo Duces…..that is exactly the sort of decent ferretting around and finding of info that makes this Forum so very very useful. Well done….

I spent a dose of time at PRO trying to find out if my F1 WT648 was a survivor of the RAF Bleak Hunter loss day …..couldve done with you there!

I knew that this one rang a bell but didn’t want to post until I had dug out the information that I knew I had – somewhere.

Last year at the PRO I was looking at the 229 OCU Chivenor ORB, and among the entries for May 1967 is the following:

” The cockpit of Hunter 7407M was transported from RAF Leconfield to RAF Chivenor by Chief Technician Wooley accompanied by a small working party. On arrival here this team spent one week from the 1st May to 8th May modifying the cockpit in accordance with the instructions issued by Squadron Leader J.R.Norris the Chief Ground Instructor. This sectioned cockpit will in future be used to instruct and check student piolts on their ejection drills.”

This suggests that the work was carried out by a party from 60MU, but gives no indication as to whether 60 MU had previously ‘owned ‘the cockpit, or had collected it from somewhere else. Perhaps Wrecks and Relics has the answer?

HTH

PS While on the subject of cockpits, an entry for December 1966 states:

“Cadet Flt Sgt AG Cole, Marlborough College CCF, visited the Hunter Simulator 4th-7th. He is attempting to build a crude simulator in the forward fuselage section of an old Hunter aircraft.”

I knew that this one rang a bell but didn’t want to post until I had dug out the information that I knew I had – somewhere.

Last year at the PRO I was looking at the 229 OCU Chivenor ORB, and among the entries for May 1967 is the following:

” The cockpit of Hunter 7407M was transported from RAF Leconfield to RAF Chivenor by Chief Technician Wooley accompanied by a small working party. On arrival here this team spent one week from the 1st May to 8th May modifying the cockpit in accordance with the instructions issued by Squadron Leader J.R.Norris the Chief Ground Instructor. This sectioned cockpit will in future be used to instruct and check student pilots on their ejection drills.”

This suggests that the work was carried out by a party from 60MU, but gives no indication as to whether 60 MU had previously ‘owned ‘the cockpit, or had collected it from somewhere else. Perhaps Wrecks and Relics has the answer?

HTH

PS While on the subject of cockpits, an entry for December 1966 states:

“Cadet Flt Sgt AG Cole, Marlborough College CCF, visited the Hunter Simulator 4th-7th. He is attempting to build a crude simulator in the forward fuselage section of an old Hunter aircraft.”

Wasn’t it at North Weald for a while with the ATC restoration group?

Does anyone know why WN957 was reduced to such a truncated cockpit

Cheers
Mike

Mike,

The movement card details, as posted by alvampman above, are typically vague so don’t give much detail. However, I would suggest the cockpit was cut down forward of Frame 14 in order to become an instructional aid for ejection seat servicing. With Fr.14 gone you then get a clear view and easy access to the trip rods, mic-tel, anti-g, oxy pipe connections etc. at the rear and side of the seat. Stuff which is very difficult to see when the seat is in a ‘normal’ cockpit.

There is also a suggestion that WN957 was struck off charge, in fact scrapped, at Chivenor in Feb 1957. I would suggest that the ‘truncation’ may have therefore occured at Chivenor (can’t explain why it was there though!) and the cockpit moved to St.Athan as 7407M hence becoming the (ejection seat) “GI” as stated on the movement card. Alternatively it was never at Chivenor and the scrapping actually happened at St. Athan?

That’s my theory anyway! 🙂

Mark

Mike

10-11-54 Awaiting collection
24-11-54 C(A) RAE Farnborough
12-02-55 C(A) Transfer without charge
21-02-57 7407M St Athans as GI
02-04-57 Returned to RAF.

Alan

Gents,
Thanks for the responce .. any info more than welcomed.

XM692 – Sorry Dave, us Northerners don’t travel well south of Watford …. Good work with the Gnat, i’ve been following your progress via your website.

XF940 – Cheers Mark, will do

Cheers,
Mike

Mike,

Have you contacted DoRIS at Hendon? They will be able to supply you with a copy of the Movement Cards. I did this for the F.4

If you ever start on the front end, as we discussed I am interested in getting a nose section fabricated between Fr3 and Fr6.

Good luck with the rear bulkhead, and if I can be of any help (as you would have access to the rear face of the Fr14 bulkhead) let me know.

Mark.

Hi Mike

I have sent you a private message.

looking good Mike ill check my records