Can anyone shed light on the fate of Miles M.3 Falcon F-BBCN?
It started life as an M.3B (G-AEAO). It spent three years in the Netherlands (PH-EAO) before returning to the UK on the eve of WW2. After demob (prior to which it had been involved in tests for the M.52 project) in January 1946, it became an M.3F (G-AGZX). In December 1946 it made its way to Belgium (OO-FLY) before eventually arriving in France as F-BBCN.
Its last registered owner was the Association Club Aerien les Gerfauts (15, avenue Georges Clemenceau, 94300 Vincennes), to whom it was registered on 27 March 1958. It was based at Lognes Emerainville (now very close to Disneyland Paris). In fact it had no other registered base during its time on the French Register. It was cancelled from the French Register on 22 September 1971. The reason given for cancellation of the registration was ‘détruit’ (destroyed). However there is more than one reference to it having been seen at at Lognes Emerainville subsequent to this. The 1973 edition of ‘British Civil Aircraft’ (A.J.Jackson) says that, in 1972, it “still languished at Lognes airfield, France, alongside the remains of G-AFBF, acquired as spares in 1954” and one website refers to it having last been seen at Lognes in 1971.
Is Jackson wrong? If not, what was the source of his information? If so, was it was destroyed in an accident at some time prior to September 1971. Unfortunately I have been unable to trace any record of the nature of its actual fate or anything about it subsequent to 1972. Knowing how many aeroplanes have been deleted from national registers as ‘destroyed’ or ‘damaged beyond repair’ or suchlike, only to remerge, lazarus like, years or decades later, I cannot help but wonder whether F-BBCN might have survived, even if as no more than a decaying airframe, beyond its apparent ‘destruction’ in September 1971.
Regrettably I am a long way south of Lognes and so I am not in a position to make ‘on site’ enquiries as to the fate of F-BBCN or, if it did survive (in some form) beyond September 1971, its subsequent history. Internet searches reveal nothing about it subsequent to 1971 and in France, where the concept of the aviation forum is far less developed than in the UK, little information is available concerning this aeroplane.
So is there someone out there who knows more than me (about F-BBCN and, possibly, the remains of G-AFBF) and who can shed at least a little more light in my darkness! If so, I shall be most grateful.
By: avion ancien - 11th January 2008 at 23:23
The fate of this aircraft has been debated many times.
As fanciful as it is to imagine the thing in a barn somewhere, it would have been tracked down long ago. Many enthusiasts have ‘sought the Grail’ over the years.
Having said all of that, nobody yet has been able to say ‘ I was there when it was dragged out and burned’.
I wonder when the subject will be raised yet again?!
Hairyplane
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For me, it’s not about finding an aircraft but finding out what happened to it. I don’t expect to trace F-BBCN to a barn, somewhere in the mountains of Auvergne, in which it has been mouldering gracefully for forty years. Life’s rarely like that! However persistent research often yields new information and that, eventually, can lead to mysteries being solved. So until then, I hope that the fate of this and other ‘disappeared’ aircraft continues to be raised and debated within this forum and elsewhere. At least it makes a change from Spitfires!
By: Hairyplane - 10th January 2008 at 22:26
Missing Falcon
Hello!
The fate of this aircraft has been debated many times. Its survival into the
70’s, as featured in Don Browns ‘Book of Miles Aircraft’ ( £250 if you can find one?!) almost wills it to have survived to the present day.
Many hope that it was moved into safe storage when the airfield was relocated. However, it was only a few years before that my Magister sold for £80 and my Falcon for £10, such was the perceived value of old wooden aeroplanes. Despite being sold for only £10, G-AEEG had flown to the UK from Sweden just a year or two earlier..
Study the photo carefully and you can see that it was already in poor condition, fitted also with a horrid non-standard canopy.
As fanciful as it is to imagine the thing in a barn somewhere, it would have been tracked down long ago. Many enthusiasts have ‘sought the Grail’ over the years.
Having said all of that, nobody yet has been able to say ‘ I was there when it was dragged out and burned’.
At the moment then, my Falcon remains the only Falcon Major in the Northern hemisphere.
VH-AAT is alive and well in Australia. The Spanish Falcon 6 gets an airing occasionaly. Nice then that all 3 surviving Falcons are fliers.
I wonder when the subject will be raised yet again?!
In the meantime, come and see EG flying at Old Warden. When the Annual falls due in July I will probably rest it for a year or two. However, it has to go to Sweden in 2011 – its 75th birthday and the 75th anniversary of its arrival in Sweden. Judging by the reception I got last time I flew it there, I need to get some kidney training in…..!
A fabulous aircraft and a priviledge to be its temporary custodian.
All the best
Hairyplane
By: avion ancien - 10th January 2008 at 21:35
22 September 1971
Did the DGAC (the French equivalent of the CAA) have a purge on the French civil register in 1971 and cancel the registrations of aircraft of which there was no evidence of continuing existence and/or operation? Did they give the description ‘detruit’ (destroyed) as a matter of course to the registrations cancelled on this basis? In the course of my researches I have found several aircraft whose registrations were cancelled on the same day as that of F-BBCN, i.e. 22 September 1971, and for each the reason for cancellation is given as ‘detruit’. Perhaps Yankee Papa or another French forum member can shed light on this?
By: avion ancien - 8th January 2008 at 20:30
AA: nowt in EWR1, just a Wassmer fuse at Lognes, no Falcon anywhere.
Many thanks nonetheless. I will continue with my efforts to get to the bottom of this one!
By: alertken - 8th January 2008 at 19:58
AA: nowt in EWR1, just a Wassmer fuse at Lognes, no Falcon anywhere.
By: avion ancien - 8th January 2008 at 17:39
being closed from lognes airport and an ex lognes pilot, there is no parts from a Miles falcon in a hangar or outside. today the interesting planes on the airfield are AN 2, yak 52, 50 etc, a beech 18 and a NA T6.
you must also learned that this airport has been relocated around 1975/80 and all old hangars, runways, may some aircarfts have been destroyed at that time. I remmeber also on this field there was a company which has sold a good number of old aircraft to foreign customers, including morane, stampe, dragon etc. so may be with some luck some aircraft have escaped to be destroy, but I have never heard of miles falcon left in france;
YP
Merci. Je vous enverrai un PM ce soir.
By: avion ancien - 8th January 2008 at 17:36
[QUOTE=Papa Lima;1201937]I thought at first you were referring to the Gillette Falcon (L9705), due to the M.52 reference, but apparently not. I suppose you have the Miles web site information:
The Miles website was one of my earliest ports of call!
In the second (1974) edition of ‘British Civil Aircraft’, A.J.Jackson refers to the laminar flow wing experiments at Farnborough and the three Falcons involved in those. The first two were K5924 and L9705 (the Gillette Falcon) and he goes on to say that they:
“….were followed by a third, R4071, also with a Gipsy VI and redesignated M.3F, for spoiler trials”.
R4071 eventually became F-BBCN. Jackson continues that:
“In 1945 it was used for tests in connection with the Miles M.52 supersonic project but was re-civilianised in 1946….”.
Following that is the reference to F-BBCN and G-AFBF being extant at Lognes airfield in 1972, but nowhere does he say anything about the source of his information. Does anything different appear in subsequent editions of ‘British Civil Aircraft’? I don’t know as I do not have these.
Don Brown, in the first (1970) edition of ‘Miles Aircraft since 1925’, makes reference to L9705 being involved in the M.52 project – being fitted with a full scale M.52 wing – but no reference to the involvement of R4071, either in the chapter on the M.52 project or the chapter on the Falcon Six. He says no more than that R4071 went ” to RAE 1937…….for test with spoilers”.
Other than Jackson, Brown and the Miles website I have not been able to find any other reference to this Falcon. Does anyone else have any more information?
By: yankeepapa - 8th January 2008 at 11:46
being closed from lognes airport and an ex lognes pilot, there is no parts from a Miles falcon in a hangar or outside. today the interesting planes on the airfield are AN 2, yak 52, 50 etc, a beech 18 and a NA T6.
you must also learned that this airport has been relocated around 1975/80 and all old hangars, runways, may some aircarfts have been destroyed at that time. I remmeber also on this field there was a company which has sold a good number of old aircraft to foreign customers, including morane, stampe, dragon etc. so may be with some luck some aircraft have escaped to be destroy, but I have never heard of miles falcon left in france;
YP
By: Papa Lima - 7th January 2008 at 22:51
I thought at first you were referring to the Gillette Falcon (L9705), due to the M.52 reference, but apparently not. I suppose you have the Miles web site information:
Falcon Six M. 3B(F) 269 G-AEAO R4071 Extant Lognes France 1971 G-AGZX PH-EAO OO-FLY F-BBCN
Known History: The CoA was issued to T. Rose, Woodley on the 18 January 1936; To Holland: PH-EAO in March 1936; Restored to Miles Aicraft Ltd in June 1939; To RAE, Farnborough as R4071 (may have been with the RAE as early as 1937 for tests with spoilers).; In January 1946 restored to Southern Aircraft (Gatwick) Ltd. as G-AGZX; In December 1946 to Belgium as OO-FLY; Later to France as F-BBCN; Noted extant at Lognes in 1971; Nothing heard since, but airframe may still be in existence.
By: avion ancien - 7th January 2008 at 22:39
OK, I know that there’s not a lot of input within this forum on historic (as opposed to preserved) civil light aviation. So here’s a long shot. If there’s someone out there with a first edition of European Wrecks & Relics (1989, I think), does it contain any mention of F-BBCN and/or G-AFBF. It’s a bit of a shot in the dark, as the publication date is 17 years after the last (?) recorded sighting. But nothing ventured, nothing gained!
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January 4, 2008 at 9:34 pm