Vickers/Triumph Plane/Car name swap

Groucho Marx wrote some very amusing letters to the big film company, saying that he didn’t know you could copyright a city! The bigwigs didn’t get his jokes. That was from the book ‘The Groucho Letters’.
Well, I found these things funny…
Bri 😀

As a fan of Groucho… I recall that. He asked if Warner Brothers (makers of Casablanca) claimed the right to the word “brothers”. He added that since he and his brothers were older than the Warner Brothers they were brothers first, so they claimed rights to the word.

Still off piste, does anyone remember the hilarious skit in Michael Bentine’s TV comedy where a (Triumph) Spitfire chased and ‘shot down’ a Messerschmitt bubble car? Bri 😀

I remember a Michael Bentine skit whereby a Messerschmitt bubble car was going around and around the inside of the circular and (then) new BBC Television Centre but am sure it pre-dates the Triumph Spitfire. Certainly something ‘shot it down’ but can’t remember what.

Roger Smith.

Mmm, I wonder if Avro asked Vickers for permission to name their jet bomber “Vulcan”? I bet they didn’t. Has anyone have any hard evidence of British aircraft names having legal protection at any time?

Best wishes
Steve P

I was just reading in one of my American car magazines that in the late 50s Vickers wanted to use the Vanguard name for their new airliner but found Triumph had the rights to it.
So they did an exchange. Triumph got to name their news sports car after a Vickers product and they chose (surprise!) Spitfire.

In over 20 years involved with old Triumphs I’ve never heard of it and never seen this mentioned in the many historic articles from the Triumph owner’s clubs in the UK. That the very credible Dutch club can’t find a source adds weight to it being an entirely made up story.

It just doesn’t seem credible, especially, as shown here, when there were so many cases of aircraft and car names being the same. I suspect that trademarking names would only come into effect if somebody tried to name a similar product – ie two cars or two aircraft with the same name.

Apple Computers had a deal with the Beatles’ Apple Corp that they could share the same name providing one did computers and the other did music. Apple’s iPod and iTunes sparked off a court case.

Slightly ‘off piste’, I know, but the Marx Brothers film ‘A Night In Casablanca’ apparently breached the copyright name of the film ‘Casablanca’, or so the company (MGM?) claimed.

Groucho Marx wrote some very amusing letters to the big film company, saying that he didn’t know you could copyright a city! The bigwigs didn’t get his jokes. That was from the book ‘The Groucho Letters’.

Still off piste, does anyone remember the hilarious skit in Michael Bentine’s TV comedy where a (Triumph) Spitfire chased and ‘shot down’ a Messerschmitt bubble car?

Well, I found these things funny…

Bri 😀

😀 😀

Sorry, the Oxford was Morris not Austin. Austin/ Breguet Atlantic anyone?

Ah yes, I remember (as another member says) Morris Oxford/Austin Cambridge – big wallowing beasts (or so they seemed at the time).

John Webley – one of the quartet of founding members of the Midland Aircraft Preservation Society in 1967 – had one so it represented MAPS’ official transport for a time. Nostalgia switch turned “off” 🙂

Roger Smith.

Westminster, Ambassador and Oxford – all used by Austin.

Sapphire was used (confusingly) by Armstrong Siddeley for both a car and jet engine and were they first with the name Viper or were Dodge?.

Roger Smith.

Sorry, the Oxford was Morris not Austin. Austin/ Breguet Atlantic anyone?

thinking on .
mercedes benz also re-used some numbers for diesel engines in ther vans and cars in the 80`s and 90`s:-
om601 4 cylinder
om602 5 cylinder
om603 6 cylinder

now where have i seen these before ????

Any other aviation/motoring links?
Martin

Here’s a thread on the topic…
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68378

And to return to topic…
In case you haven’t read it, the link (a Spitfire car club) provided by Wieesso restates what I read in the car magazine but it says…but it doesnt have any proof on the topic.

Westminster, Ambassador and Oxford – all used by Austin.

Sapphire was used (confusingly) by Armstrong Siddeley for both a car and jet engine and were they first with the name Viper or were Dodge?.

Roger Smith.

Were names a legal issue in the 1950s/1960s? I thought that that the current hooha about ownership of names came about with the arrival of the corporate lawyer?

Best wishes
Steve P

The word Airbus often appears on London buses but I doubt they are related 🙂 (some might disagree though)

Also Metro (BL) and Metro (Sweringen)

There are also Puma, Corvette, Cougar, Falcon in both car & aircraft forms

The ‘Spitfire’ wasn’t the first Triumph to have an aircraft name. There was also the car the Spitfire was based on, the Herald which IIRC was an airliner built by Handley Page.

How about the Ford/North American Mustang admittedly both named after the wild horse. Also SAAB are always telling us their cars have an aviation pedigree as they are usually advertised with a Viggen or a Gripen.

Any other aviation/motoring links?

Martin

There’s also a version of the Caterham 7, which has a Japanese motorbike engine, called the ‘Hayabusa’.

Strictly speaking it’s a Suzuki Hayabusa motorbike, which lent its engine to the Caterham.
Did Suzuki have to negotiate with the heirs to Nakajima (ie Fuji Heavy Industries) to use the Hayabusa name, or was it assumed that no-one had any fixed rights to what is, after all, the name of a well-known Japanese bird of prey?
Another ‘double’ is the de Havilland/Wolsley Hornet, and there’s also the Donald Campbell/Nissan Bluebird. I suspect any rights claimed by the earlier version may not be all that enforceable.

Nice Bristols…

http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.htm

ETA my girlfriend’s mother used to call her Astra “the Messerschmitt”. Why? Reg number began M109…

Adrian

I have read it was actually forbidden after the war for former Axis countries to use “emotive” names for things like cars, motorbikes and so on. Hence most German cars having numbers, not names.

I can undertsand why SS motors decided to change to Jaguar though!:D

Don’t forget the Vauxhall Victor (actually you can forget it, if you like)
I followed a van the other day with a Mercedes badge, and bearing the legend “109”; don’t see those two together everyday!

Interesting.

Mitsubishi probably still have the name rights for a Zero. Or oddly the Kamikaze (Ki-15). Both splendid names for cars.

😀

There was a version of the Lancer WRC a few years ago called the ‘Zero Fighter’. It caused consternation in some circles until it was pointed out that British car manufacturers had not been slow to give their products the same names as WW2 warplanes.

There’s also a version of the Caterham 7, which has a Japanese motorbike engine, called the ‘Hayabusa’.

Interesting.

Mitsubishi probably still have the name rights for a Zero. Or oddly the Kamikaze (Ki-15). Both splendid names for cars.

😀