Should crash sites be disturbed??

Perhaps you should ask athorities if you can take some wreckage back up the hills or would they class it as littering?there must be some stored away recovered pre 1986, this was one of the reasons some high level crash sites were cleaned up.

Much as i do like to see intact sites this is no always the case and you normally find wreckage spread across hundreds of yards so i guess one of the reasons for a clean up

Fighterace,With all due respect what makes you say the “authorities” cleared any sites on high ground? There is an often repeated rumour that in North Wales the Snowdonia National Park had a policy of removing wreckage in order to “tidy” or “clean up” the area,however there is no truth to this,SNP NEVER had a policy of clearing sites. Recovery groups have removed or instigated the removal of wreckage from a large number of sites in Snowdonia and of all the wreckage removed the majority has not survived. IF the wreckage removed by the recovery groups had survived the landowners in several cases would welcome it’s return,and no it would not be classed as littering!.

I have nothing against recovering wreckage if it is done for the right reasons,ie to preserve a piece of history for future generations and if it is done with due respect for everyone involved,the families of those who died in the crash,the landowners feelings etc.

What is the point in a recovery group or individual taking wreckage from a site only for it to sit in someone’s shed for a few years until it gets scrapped? it seems to me it’s a case of “must have” with no thought for the preservation of what is recovered.

Garry.

I think for many, it is the thrill of the hunt. Items recovered are quite incidental.

Personally, where there are human remains I feel they should be recovered and properly buried – not left rotting anonymously in a field. The act of recovery and burial is an act of respect and brings closure to families.

Just my 2c on what is clearly a very subjective topic.

Why? Me-109E made a perfectly valid comment,much of what is recovered from many digs DOES end up in private collections. One(fatal) crash I researched is on land which has been in the same family for several generations,the present owner remembers the crash in question,he was a boy of 16 when it happened. No one has ever asked for permission to remove anything from the site and,if they had,the request would have been turned down as the land owner feels it would be disrespectful to disturbe the site. Dispite this several groups and individuals have dug on the site and removed wreckage,both before AND after the protection of military remains act was passed,now what image of wreckologists does this portray?. True not everyone would act in this way,but the fact is there are those who seem to think any crash site is there for the taking regardless of what the landowner,MOD or relatives of those who died in the crash say,think or feel and it is THOSE people I am talking about here. Surely anyone who goes about a recovery in the correct way cannot find such a thread offensive?

I must agreed yes its a nice find and both a bitter one aswell but ha ho it all since past and we must move on. Some perople do get really offensive on here and like putting the ore in, much as you may be a little miffed that the hill sites have been clean up both by athorities and recovery groups,because you always raise this issue. Perhaps you should ask athorities if you can take some wreckage back up the hills or would they class it as littering?there must be some stored away recovered pre 1986, this was one of the reasons some high level crash sites were cleaned up.

Much as i do like to see intact sites this is no always the case and you normally find wreckage spread across hundreds of yards so i guess one of the reasons for a clean up

Xtango, please don’t think that my reply r.e the farm machinery was sneering or in anyway derogatory, it was merely adding another dimension (wanted or not) to the thread.

As Junk collector was involved in the recovery, he is feeling a little aggrieved, with regards to the way things turned out, possibly justified,possibly not; not for me to say.

As I understand it, the data plate doesn’t just save a few quid, it is the difference between a restoration, and a new build, and the latter requires type approval, and that needs very deep pockets.

Whilst it is true to say that nothing made in 1940 cannot be replicated, you have to see the invoices for some of these items to believe them, and no one has started manufacture of merlins yet, however the one thing that can’t be replicated is the history, the bravery and possibly the ingenuity, of those men with their backs to the wall.

I think we are trying to flog a dead horse here, ask the restorers exactly what can be used after a crash and get an airworthy ticket, not much just a few odds n ends,maybe hub bearings & gears, data plates, and merlin bits if you are lucky once beeding itself 18ft in the ground. ok it will save thousands of pounds but lets be real boys its a rich boys mechano set so a few quid wont break the bank. Most of the parts from a recovery will end in the scrap bin so from that side it would be better on my shed wall or museum

Ime just a few quid off my million to by mine so donations welcome:D

Xtango, please don’t think that my reply r.e the farm machinery was sneering or in anyway derogatory, it was merely adding another dimension (wanted or not) to the thread.

As Junk collector was involved in the recovery, he is feeling a little aggrieved, with regards to the way things turned out, possibly justified,possibly not; not for me to say.

As I understand it, the data plate doesn’t just save a few quid, it is the difference between a restoration, and a new build, and the latter requires type approval, and that needs very deep pockets.

Whilst it is true to say that nothing made in 1940 cannot be replicated, you have to see the invoices for some of these items to believe them, and no one has started manufacture of merlins yet, however the one thing that can’t be replicated is the history, the bravery and possibly the ingenuity, of those men with their backs to the wall.

Guys, can we just leave this one where it is, I disagree with some of the comments issues, but really lets just leave it PLEASE. 🙁

Why? Me-109E made a perfectly valid comment,much of what is recovered from many digs DOES end up in private collections. One(fatal) crash I researched is on land which has been in the same family for several generations,the present owner remembers the crash in question,he was a boy of 16 when it happened. No one has ever asked for permission to remove anything from the site and,if they had,the request would have been turned down as the land owner feels it would be disrespectful to disturbe the site. Dispite this several groups and individuals have dug on the site and removed wreckage,both before AND after the protection of military remains act was passed,now what image of wreckologists does this portray?. True not everyone would act in this way,but the fact is there are those who seem to think any crash site is there for the taking regardless of what the landowner,MOD or relatives of those who died in the crash say,think or feel and it is THOSE people I am talking about here. Surely anyone who goes about a recovery in the correct way cannot find such a thread offensive?

What a find, and it’s nice to see it hasn’t been broken up into collectors bits and pieces, is this the spit from the time team dig??

Guys, can we just leave this one where it is, I disagree with some of the comments/issues, but really lets just leave it PLEASE. 🙁

I put these pics on the ‘Spitfire pictures’ post but have had a couple of sneering replies about ‘junk and scrap metal’ together with farm machinery ect.

I suppose some people think that all the flying Spitfires were delivered whole and flyable, but most of us know that many of them started from scrap yards, fire dumps, playgrounds ect.

MA 764 is probably one of the most complete Spitfire digs ever, certainly as far as the firewall, cockpit, and a small area of fusalage behind the cockpit is concerned.

Even though there was some anguish amongst the recovery team to start with, this one was not taken away and broken up into collectors bits and pieces. It was all kept together and will, I’m told, form the basis for a new aeroplane in the years to come.

If that happens, then it will show what can be achieved by recoveries carried out with a mind to preserve and show the aeroplane to this and the next generation.

What a find, and it’s nice to see it hasn’t been broken up into collectors bits and pieces, is this the spit from the time team dig??

Interesting as the pile of wreckage may seem, its been talked over untill that post got locked so it water under the bridge, lets be honist boys there is nothing in 1940 that could not be remade today, all we have is something of historic interest and a dataplate to save the builder a few quid.

Lets be honist how many WW2 planes are origional and still flying, my guess is very few, just look at willys jeeps there are proberly more new builds sold as genuine 1940s but more like 2 year old that the real thing on the road

Now there’s a man speaking a lot of sense and reality 😉

Come on lighten up a bit…. That spitfre is interesting there have been flyers produced out of much less! There are parts available to restore her if the funds are there though.

Interesting as the pile of wreckage may seem, its been talked over untill that post got locked so it water under the bridge, lets be honist boys there is nothing in 1940 that could not be remade today, all we have is something of historic interest and a dataplate to save the builder a few quid.

Lets be honist how many WW2 planes are origional and still flying, my guess is very few, just look at willys jeeps there are proberly more new builds sold as genuine 1940s but more like 2 year old that the real thing on the road

from little acorns…..

Come on lighten up a bit…. That spitfre is interesting there have been flyers produced out of much less! There are parts available to restore her if the funds are there though.

Is my Spitfire thread really that boring!?! I only started it to try and lift the mood after certain threads were removed 🙁

Sorry Richard, my comment was not aimed at anyone please don’t take anything by it, it was more borne out of frustration, admittedly most of the Key Publishing world does revolve around Spitfire this Spitfire that, it was more that I was getting at.

While we all love them, it can get a bit overkill sometimes, we have seen arguments erupt on here over paint colour schemes etc, one reason I dont buy Spitfire Monthly, sorry Flypast anymore, that and the endless museum and airfield guides 😡

But it’s supposed to be a free country, and if you wanna talk Spitfire go ahead and do so, just steer clear of other less favourable tubular, types at the moment,

Now come on guys that one surely is harmless !!!!!

Are you referring to a specific post in which case please contact the moderators offline (Me by PM if necessary) and give us the evidence, or are you just making random guesses on a subject that you have no particular insight into?

Rob P

All it needs is some TLC..

Crash sites are pretty rare here in Auss due to the fact that they were scavanged pretty thouroughy by RAAF teams to keep the airforce flying during WW2.Yes the parts shortage was that bad.Grave markers were usually put up to mark the body,s resting place up to when it was time to be moved.Here a crash either disintergrates or gets lost in the wide blue waters between Darwin and the rest of the islands north of us.It,s a touchy subject and I think maturity and morality come into play with wrecks.
With the Spit nothing is impossible these days..Yes these are drawn full size..:diablo:

Cheers, Mike. I’ll try to be a bit less jumpy!

Adrian

Ferguson potato ridger

Hi Adrian

Unfortunately the person who could give you the details of the ridger is ‘unavailable’ for comment on this forum at the moment.
I myself was once the proud owner of a very respectable ‘grey’ Ferguson tractor. However no offence intended or taken.

I also have reserves about the final outcome of 764, but at least the recovery has made available the possibility of a rebuild. Secrecy in the early days of a historic rebuild is such that I have no knowlege as to the present whereabouts and furtherance of the project. Nevertheless we can wait and hope.

Hmmm Spit bits..

First time I,ve ever heard the word junk and Spitfire in the same sentence…:D
Tail leading edge rivets.Will get back to you on that one…:confused: :p

Is my Spitfire thread really that boring!?! I only started it to try and lift the mood after certain threads were removed 🙁

From the other thread referred to:

“Having seen a suspiciously similar pile of tangled metal on the tele, I can only say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the first line!

Is that a Ferguson potato ridger next to the acrobat in the background?”

That’s astonishment, not sneering, thank you.:mad: I’ve peered into holes in the ground and seen what usually comes out of them. It’s a fascinating recovery, and pretty astonishing in itself. However, like V7497 in particular, I am frankly cynical that any “rebuild” can be considered as anything other than George Washington’s axe – especially with aircraft on the scene like the Teichmann Mustang or MH434.

And I happen to be interested in old farm machinery as well as Spitfires. One of the two I may one day afford. The Spitfire it isn’t. If you type “Fordson” into the search facility I’m not the only one – there are a number of us out there, some of whom are actively restoring ex-airfield Fordsons.

Besides, Harry Ferguson was the first man to fly in Ireland.

Huffing and puffing done – let’s get on with the subject.

Adrian

Recovered from a dig

I put these pics on the ‘Spitfire pictures’ post but have had a couple of sneering replies about ‘junk and scrap metal’ together with farm machinery ect.

I suppose some people think that all the flying Spitfires were delivered whole and flyable, but most of us know that many of them started from scrap yards, fire dumps, playgrounds ect.

MA 764 is probably one of the most complete Spitfire digs ever, certainly as far as the firewall, cockpit, and a small area of fusalage behind the cockpit is concerned.

Even though there was some anguish amongst the recovery team to start with, this one was not taken away and broken up into collectors bits and pieces. It was all kept together and will, I’m told, form the basis for a new aeroplane in the years to come.

If that happens, then it will show what can be achieved by recoveries carried out with a mind to preserve and show the aeroplane to this and the next generation.