BAC Drone

As pictures of the Kronfeld Flying Trainer, ‘doing what it says on the tin’, are not exactly commonplace, I thought that I’d post the one across which I came in an old French aviation magazine

Three more Pathe films featuring Mr Lowe-Wylde.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/towed-gliding/query/Lowe

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/towed-gliding-from-race-track/query/Lowe

http://http://www.britishpathe.com/video/first-water-glider-in-the-world/query/Lowe

In ‘Ultralights’ by Richard Riding, it is stated that two Planettes were demonstrated at Hanworth on 27th November 1932, and a four ship demonstration held one month later, on 27th December. The book contains a photo of all four machines aloft, page 183 to be precise.

Thank you, Chitts. I hadn’t seen those newsreels before and certainly enjoyed watching them. The second, in particular, suggests that Hanworth may well have been the location of the photo that I posted. It also indicates that the aeroplanes in the photo and the newsreels were Planettes, rather than Drones, because of the position of the fuel tank, the lack of registration marks, the numbers on the noses and the fact that Lowe-Wylde was still alive when the first newsreel film was shot. So that dates the photo to late 1932/early 1933. The exact date may have been 27 December 1932 because, in the second part of his four part article on B.A.C., Bob Ogden comments that: “on 27 December [1932] all four [Planettes] took part in a series of demonstrations including pylon racing…”.

p.s. Dave, you must have posted whilst I was typing!

The first aircraft in the photo looks more like a Planette, than a Drone to me.

Dave

Have you seen these film clips on the British Pathe website? Maybe your photograph was taken at Hanworth?

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-motor-cycle-of-the-air

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/back-to-the-old-love/query/hanworth

Please forgive me reviving the subject of BAC Drones, but this evening I came across the attached photo of a pair of Drones engaged in low level pylon racing. Does anyone know the date and/or location of the photo or the identities of the pair of Drones?

I’ve dug out the series of articles by Bob Ogden on the British Aircraft Company (‘Vintage Aircraft’ magazine nos. 8,9,10,11 & 12). They shed a glimmer of light on the OO-BAC/D/E issue. In part 2 he says:

“The Drone was built under license in Belgium by the club at Ghent…..”

but, tantalisingly, he does not elaborate on this. Are there any Belgian forum members who can do so?

Also parts 4 & 5 clarify the matter of the aircraft with c/n 32, 33 & 34. 32 was the ‘Kronfeld Flying Trainer’, which was a Kronfeld Ground Trainer (another story in itself!) with a pair of Drone wings attached – effectively a microlight half a century before the idea re-emerged. 33 and 34 were Kronfeld Monoplanes G-AESG and G-AESH respectively. Only the former flew. Both were destroyed by the fire at the Phoenix Works, Gerrards Cross, in 1943.

Ancien, Try this link: http://www.asa-be.com/photogallery_BCR.htm it may help.

The fact that OO-BAC was first registered in Belgium in 1934 suggests that it was a Planette, rather than a Drone, unless it was a BAC VII powered glider. Drone production (by Kronfeld) did not start until 1935. It would be interesting to know when OO-BAD was first registered in Belgium. OO-BAE (sorry I missed that one earlier) could have been a Drone but all four produced in 1935 (G-ADMU, G-ADSA, G-ADPJ and G-ADUA) are accounted for and never appear to have left UK registration. So what is the provenance of the Belgian ‘Drones’? One possibility – for which I have no evidence and which seems most unlikely – is that they were BAC gliders which were motorised in Belgium. Another – more likely – was that they were licence built Drones. I’ll seek out the Bob Ogden articles later this evening and see if they shed any light on this matter.

Just had another trawl around the web.
There is very little info about OO-BAD which was reallocated later to a hot air balloon.
OO-BAC was first registered 7 June 1933 and is shown as crashed 10 June 1935. The C/N was supposedly 290 which doesn’t appear to fit in with the constructors numbers for the UK registered examples.
OO-BAE was registered 24 April 1934 and was supposedly C/N 305 which again doesn’t fit with UK registered examples. I can’t find any details of the fate of this aircraft.
Both the above were registered to Section Gantoise De Vol Sans Moteur ASBL.

Don’t know if this helps but my 1984 copy of Wrecks and Relics has an entry for Benson in Oxfordshire which says :-

“Phil Dunnington bought the ex Thetford BAC Drone “fleet” here to continue their rebuild into one flyable aircraft. Bits of G-AEKU are also held.
G-ADPJ Ex Thetford crashed 3/4/55
G-AEJR Ex Thetford, Elmdon, Honiley

This appears to tie up with G-AEJH being the Drone that fell into the ditch whilst on tow. It also seems to seperate these airframes (t least at that time) from the rebuild of G-AEDB which at that time was listed as airworthy at Duxford.

Also came across this info for OO-BAC which is shown as a BAC Drone
http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/Photos/CivilPics/civil_airports/knokke_het_zoute_airfield.htm#BAC%20Drone%20OO-BAC

AA……

Have taken another peek into ULTRALIGHTS but there is no mention of Drones and Belgium.

These two registrations seem to present a bit of a problem. The date quoted for the crash of OO-BAD appears to predate initial registration dates for most of the Drones produced.

Planemike………

I should read before I write! Having subsequently looked at ‘British Civil Aircraft 1919-72’, I now remember that C.H.Lowe Wylde (spelling difference noted) was the designer of the motorised BAC VII glider and the BAC Planette, the predecessors to the Drone, before being killed whilst flying the first production Planette at West Malling in 1932. After his death, Robert Kronfeld acquired BAC and Planette Nº 2 became the first Drone. It appears that there were only four Planettes produced. As Nº 1 sideslipped into the ground from 400 feet, I assume that it was destroyed. So did two out of the three remaining Planettes – which appear initially not to have been registered but only to have been certificated as BGA 196 to 198 – become OO-BAC and OO-BAD or is the make/type description in the Belgian civil register no more than a red herring? Perhaps it is the latter as it appears that:

– Nº 2 went to India as VT-AEU
– Nº 3 became G-ADSB and, subsequently, reverted to a glider as BGA 609
– Nº 4 became G-AENZ and survived in the UK until some time after 1946

So what are the provenances of OO-BAC and OO-BAD? Were they actually BAC (Kronfeld) Drones? All the production of these aircraft appears to be accounted for except c/n 33 and 34 (plus c/n 32, the “unregistered flyable ground trainer”!). Any ideas, anyone?

Finally, I regret to say, Planemike, that I do not have a copy of Richard Riding’s book. Could you take a look at it and then post again if it sheds any more light on the matters of OO-BAC or OO-BAD?

AA…………

Do you have a copy of ULTRALIGHTS The early British Classics by Richard Riding? There is a section in there that deals with the Drone and how Charles Lowe-Wylde fits into the picture.

Just checked A J Jackson’s British Civil Aircraft 1919 – 1972 Vol I, no mention of any of the Drones being sold to or being registered in Belgium.

Planemike…………

Lowe Wilde Drone

Whilst visiting the website dedicated to the old Ghent Sint-Denijs-Westrem airfield (www.airfield-ghent.be) I came across the attached photos of OO-BAD, a Lowe Wilde Drone. I cannot credit the photos as no credits appear on the website (however the photos can be found at www.airfield-ghent.be/aircraftcrashes/index.html ). Whilst I have not yet dug out of storage Bob Ogden’s series of articles on the Drone in, I think, the now defunct Vintage Aircraft Magazine, the Lowe Wild Drone rings no bells with me. OO-BAD appears to be not the only Lowe Wild Drone to have been on the Belgian register. There was OO-BAC (perhaps apposite!) as well. Anyhow OO-BAD crashed at Sint-Denijs-Westrem on 10.06.35. I can’t trace any information about OO-BAC. I assume the Lowe Wild Drone to have been a licence built version of the BAC Drone (like the SFAN.2). But whilst I am trying to find the Bob Ogden articles, can anyone out there throw any light on the Lowe Wild Drone?

The pub was after Quatt on the right towards Bridgenorth, we did not realise it had broken away untill we were almost through Quatt, a PC on his bicycle did not look at us when we passed. I turned round and the drone was missing, we quickly turned round in our 1936 “Triump Vitesse” and found it in the ditch by the pub with a crowd round it. One unsteady local grasping his pint tumbler said “I want to know what’s happened to the pilot”. I guess that this drone was G-AEJH because I have the log book in front of me, the last entry is 27/8/39 from Heronfield. Dad never did keep log books up to date especialy his war time flights. The flying field was part of Home Farm, Knowle Hall owned by Horace Everitt the Squire of Knowle, he was a friend of Geoffrey de Haviland and did flight testing on Vampires, Dad built the three hangers there in the mid 1930’s one was dads horace had the middle one for his Moth and the largest was for the Jefferson brothers. Dad’s planes being single seaters were not comandered by the Air Minstry but the others were. A Gliding school for the ATC was set up there and the Air Ministry asked dad to do the repairs for Midland Comand, eight schools in all.

I am the son of Don Burgoyne ( Donovan Cookes Burgoyne ) and two of my sons run D.C.Burgoyne & sons at Heronfield Farm http://www.dcburgoyne.co.uk/ not a to be confused with “Heronfield Hire” plant hire buisness at Pear Tree Farm.
Some photo’s of Dad’s Drones can be seen at :-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~billburgoyne/dons%20page.htm

G-AEDB is or has been restored at RR/Derby. One sunday we collected one of the Douglas engined drones from the Long Mynd, we were towing the fuselarge by the tail wheel it came undone outside a pub between Kiddiminster and Bridnorth and was wrecked we removed the engine and collected the rest next day.

Ah, you used to service my lawnmower when I lived in Solihull. It’s still working, eight years on, but cutting lawns in France nowadays!

Your anecdote about G-AEDB is fascinating. When was this? Which was the pub between Kiddie and Bridgnorth? I’ve probably drunk there!

Do any of the other Drones, mentioned in my original post, ring bells with you? I am sure that if you have anecdotes about them, these would be of great interest to forum members.

The books talk about Heronfield Farm being a satellite airfield to Elmdon. Was the airfield there created for the purpose of the glider servicing business? Can you shed any light on the lay-out of the airfield there? Better still, have you any photos or maps that illustrate this?

Finally I was fascinated to see the photos of the Scheldesmusch on the website. What became of that? The very first edition of Wrecks & Relics mentions it. The entry says:

“The Scheldesmusch PH-AMG, which used to be stored in Wood’s Garage, was given by Mr J.H.V.Woods to Sqd/Ldr D.Langford some time ago. It was damaged in taxying trials and sold to a scrap dealer”.

I am the son of Don Burgoyne ( Donovan Cookes Burgoyne ) and two of my sons run D.C.Burgoyne & sons at Heronfield Farm http://www.dcburgoyne.co.uk/ not a to be confused with “Heronfield Hire” plant hire buisness at Pear Tree Farm.
Some photo’s of Dad’s Drones can be seen at :-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~billburgoyne/dons%20page.htm

G-AEDB is or has been restored at RR/Derby. One sunday we collected one of the Douglas engined drones from the Long Mynd, we were towing the fuselarge by the tail wheel it came undone outside a pub between Kiddiminster and Bridnorth and was wrecked we removed the engine and collected the rest next day.

Sounds like you need to get a copy of Aviation in Warwickshire Between The Wars by my good chum Alf Jenks. It’s a privately published book but is superbly researched and gives a really detailed insight in Don Burgoyne’s involvement in aviation and includes detailed history of Heronfield and many other sites. Thoroughly recommended see:
http://www.warwickshireaviation.co.uk/

Tim

I will pursue this lead. But in the meantime, can you – by reference to Alf Jenks’ book or otherwise – shed light in any of my areas of darkness!

Does anyone know what became of the Drones that passed through the hands of Don Burgoyne? ……………………All seven identified appear to have been with Mr Burgoyne at ‘Heronfield’. Some sources suggest that location to have been known alternatively as High Tree Farm or Knowle, a former satellite airfield to Elmdon. Is this the same site as was – at least before I left the Solihull area five years ago – the base of the plant hire and building business at Heronfield Farm on the Solihull to Warwick road?

Sounds like you need to get a copy of Aviation in Warwickshire Between The Wars by my good chum Alf Jenks. It’s a privately published book but is superbly researched and gives a really detailed insight in Don Burgoyne’s involvement in aviation and includes detailed history of Heronfield and many other sites. Thoroughly recommended see:
http://www.warwickshireaviation.co.uk/

Tim