The oldest airfield?

Had a chat with one of the fellows (a former F16 pilot, now flying “heavies” for United) that helped save our local airport. He suggested this link to the organization they formed to save the airport. It has been saved and money has appeared to make it better serve the community. Here is the link.

http://www.awaps.org/awaps/reasons/mainreasons.asp

That means Kjeller would possibly be “Second oldest in Scandinavia” then… 🙂

Hello,

Issy-les-Moulineaux near Paris is an airfield since 1906. (heliport since 1957)

Ljungbyhed in Sweden is still in use as an airport – first take off’s and landings were made in 1910!

Beats us then. First flights here was September 21,1912… But second best does.. 😀

Ljungbyhed in Sweden is still in use as an airport – first take off’s and landings were made in 1910!

Am I correct in my recollection that in the first edition of W&R there was a reference to the wreck of Eilmer’s wings still being in the brambles about 200 metres to the north-west of the site of the abbey tower! I don’t recollect there being any subsequent reference to the wreck so, perhaps, someone should organise a dig to see if they are still there. If they can be restored, it would be good to see them in flight at Old Warden on some still summer evening!

Try Google Earth perhaps?? 😀

Strickly speaking, of course, and taking into account the title of the original thread posting, then the title of the oldest airfield has to go a patch of grass near Malmesbury Abbey, Wilthsire, England. It was here that the monk Eilmer crash-landed after launching himself from the tower of the the then abbey in the year 1010. As he is currently accorded as having acheived 200 yards horizontally before pranging then we should assume that this was the first heavier-than-air flight. As it was in the air, and the ground on which he landed was a field, then – surely – this must be the first air-field!
See http://www.eilmer.co.uk/eilmer-biog.htm.
Or perhaps the Abbey’s brews were a little strong!!! I note, however, that his CO grounded him and refused to countenance any further flying experiments. Wilbur and Orville had to wait 900 years before they cracked it!!
LOL
Resmoroh

Am I correct in my recollection that in the first edition of W&R there was a reference to the wreck of Eilmer’s wings still being in the brambles about 200 metres to the north-west of the site of the abbey tower! I don’t recollect there being any subsequent reference to the wreck so, perhaps, someone should organise a dig to see if they are still there. If they can be restored, it would be good to see them in flight at Old Warden on some still summer evening!

Strickly speaking, of course, and taking into account the title of the original thread posting, then the title of the oldest airfield has to go a patch of grass near Malmesbury Abbey, Wilthsire, England. It was here that the monk Eilmer crash-landed after launching himself from the tower of the the then abbey in the year 1010. As he is currently accorded as having acheived 200 yards horizontally before pranging then we should assume that this was the first heavier-than-air flight. As it was in the air, and the ground on which he landed was a field, then – surely – this must be the first air-field!
See http://www.eilmer.co.uk/eilmer-biog.htm.
Or perhaps the Abbey’s brews were a little strong!!! I note, however, that his CO grounded him and refused to countenance any further flying experiments. Wilbur and Orville had to wait 900 years before they cracked it!!
LOL
Resmoroh

Lovely – thanks Nosedive, was always amazed by how large Miss Kenya is – a great history too…

ATB

TT

Indeed 1913 comes before 1914; and purchase / set up has to come before use. The Pensacola refs I’ve just looked up are very coy about when the first flight from there actually occurred. Both Point Cook and Pensacola were set-up in 1913; of course Pensacola was a USN base already. The other catches are that Point Cook has continuous and military aviation on the base; some other older places had a period closed, others, like Farnborough, aren’t military airfields throughout.

All that said, any airfield pre-W.W.I that’s still going has a lot to be proud of, and is worth fighting for.

Google yields the following references for the history of aviation at Pensacola?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Pensacola

In October 1913, Secretary of the Navy Josephus Daniels, appointed a board, with Capt. Chambers as chairman, to make a survey of aeronautical needs and to establish a policy to guide future development. One of the board’s most important recommendations was the establishment of an aviation training station in Pensacola.

Upon entry into World War I, Pensacola, still the only naval air station, had 38 naval aviators, 163 enlisted men trained in aviation support, and 54 fixed-wing aircraft. Two years later, by the signing of the armistice in November 1918, the air station, with 438 officers and 5,538 enlisted men, had trained 1,000 naval aviators. At war’s end, seaplanes, dirigibles, and free kite balloons were housed in steel and wooden hangars stretching a mile down the air station beach.

http://www.militarynewcomers.com/PENSACOLA/resources/05history.html

In October 1913, Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, appointed a board, with Capt. Chambers as chairman, to make a survey of aeronautical needs and to establish a policy to guide future development. One of the board’s most important recommendations was the establishment of an aviation training station in Pensacola.

The recommendation was approved and the first U.S. Naval Air Station was created in 1914 on the site of the abandoned Navy yard.

Commander H.C. Mustin became the first base commander, and all pilots and planes were ordered here for duty. A row of 10 tent hangars was set up along the sandy beach, with wooden ramps running from each tent to the water. Naval aviation consisted of 9 officers, 23 mechanics, and 8 airplanes!

http://nationalaviation.blade6.donet.com/components/content_manager_v02/view_nahf/htdocs/menu_ps.asp?NodeID=68687043&group_ID=1134656385&Parent_ID=-1

Read was born in New Hampshire in 1887 and graduated with high honors from the Naval Academy Class of 1907.

While he served in the fleet, he studied all the information that he could find on aviation. When the Navy opened its first training school at Pensacola, Florida, in 1912, Read was among the first to be selected for training. After he soloed in 1915 he was designated Naval Aviator No. 24. When he served aboard the USS Carolina, the first Navy ship provided with aircraft, Read made numerous catapult take-offs as part of his regular flight operations.

It is not clear when the first flight took place at Pensacola, and apparantly the USN was undertaking catapult, seaplane and carrier flights from 1911 onwards so there may have been flights at Pensacola before the creation of the “Air Station” but it does seem that the decision to create the Air Station occured in October 1913, and the Air Station came into being in 1914 and its first training course “solo’ed” in 1915, so it would seem Point Cook nudges “ahead by a nose” but as JDK say’s all of these pre-WW1 airfields in Australia, UK, Europe and USA are important “world heritage” especially those that retain original built heritage and havent been swallowed by urban sprawl, they all will become the “stonehedges” of the age of aviation for future generations.

EDIT***

I just found this further reference to the first flight at Pensacola occuring on 2 February 1914, apparantly then just pipping Point Cook at the post – smiles

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:2eZUItlxtCgJ:www.history.navy.mil/download/pict-m2.pdf+pensacola+1914+%22first+flight%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au

Early aircraft are lined up in front of theircanvas hangars on the flight beach at theNaval Aeronautic Station, Pensacola, in March1914. It was the Navy’s first permanent airstation, established by Lt.Cdr. Henry C. Mustinin January 1914, together with a flying school.The first flight was made from the station onFebruary 2 by Lt. J.H. Towers and Ens. G. deC.Chevalier

Again, both are important pioneer aviation sites.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

RF769
We nearly lost our little “OLD” airfield a few years ago. The City council was looking to close it down and make it half park and half condos. A group formed up to save the airfield.

They did a big public relations camgaign to show the value, utility and history of the airfield as well as the economic benifits and jobs that the field bring to the community.

I know one of the leaders of that “Action Group”. If you like, I could see if I could get some of their campaign information and tactics from him that help to save our field. It may help save yours.

Chris

Thanks for that,I’d appreciate anything we can use that might save it. 🙂 As of now the field holds RNoAF’s main aircraft servicing and repair unit,and they have quite some space there. Some of it in the same old buildings. When they leave in a few years,the field is planned to be shut down as there are then “no jobs available there”.

Imagine how nice it would be to keep the runway so the civilian part (located at the eastern end of the runway) could still be,and to situate a museum in those buildings (located in the western end)…possibly even situate flying warbirds and/or restoration facilities there. We have had complaints about noise from magneto checks done at the civilian side during airshows,but as the RNoAF’s building complex shield large areas from any noise that would not be an issue… 🙂

Now if I could only win the Lottery…big time. :diablo:

Airfield buildings

If we are now getting onto the subject of period airfield bulidings, surely the beehive at Gatwick, particularly when viewed in the setting of the original Airworks hangars between it and the railway line, must rank high in the list of the great and good! Its only a shame that its not now an ‘airfield, ever since it was left in splendid isolation as a result of the diversion of the A23 in 1958!

Helsinki-Malmi airport in Finland was founded in 1936 and all the original hangars and other buildings are still there. Even parts (asphalt) of the original runways are been used today.

Funny, I thought 1913 came before 1914…Pensacola Naval Air station unless there is something older or you don’t count Naval Aviation!
:rolleyes: 😀

Indeed 1913 comes before 1914; and purchase / set up has to come before use. The Pensacola refs I’ve just looked up are very coy about when the first flight from there actually occurred. Both Point Cook and Pensacola were set-up in 1913; of course Pensacola was a USN base already. The other catches are that Point Cook has continuous and military aviation on the base; some other older places had a period closed, others, like Farnborough, aren’t military airfields throughout.

All that said, any airfield pre-W.W.I that’s still going has a lot to be proud of, and is worth fighting for.

I doff my cap to thee Mr Nosedive as you’ve shown that once in a while I’m right!!!

🙂

TT

For those not sure what we are on about, here she is in fine company last Sunday with dH51 G-EBIR “Miss Kenya” (the oldest flying de Havilland design), dH60 Moth G-EBLV (the oldest moth) and the Collections dH82 Tiger Moth.

oldest airfield

i thought it was Sherburn in Elemet,it noted as the finest natural landing ground in europe:cool: 😎 😎

I doff my cap to thee Mr Nosedive as you’ve shown that once in a while I’m right!!!

🙂

TT

I think that Richard Shuttleworths DH Moth holds the record for being the aircraft based longest at the same airfield (OW obviously) anywhere in the world…. (or should that be airworthy aircraft) am I wrong?

ATB

TT

That is quite correct. dH60x Moth G-EBWD was purchase by Richard Shuttleworth in 1932 and then based her at Old Warden. 1932 to 2007 – 75 Years.

RF769.

Australia nearly lost its oldest airfield at Point Cook to property redevelopment between 1997 and 2003, if not for the efforts of an “Action Group” that commenced with a 11,000 signiture petition to Federal Parliament demanding its retention in 1998, and then an ongoing public and political lobbying campaign.

Point Cook was farm land purchased from the Chirnside family of Werribee, and annouced as the site for the formation of the Central Flying School on 7 March 1913, although its first flight did not occur until a year later on 1 March 1914.

However “Point Cooke” is a coastal feature forming the southern end of Altona Bay and around the corner from the RAAF Base at Altona Bay, and on neighbouring land to Chirnsides, there had been a number of even earlier flights.

On 15 to 26 November 1910 Gaston Cugnet had demontrated a Bleriot to the Government and Prime Minister of Australia (acting as a demonstration tour for Bleriot), at the same site on 18 February 1911 J J Hammond, on a demonstration tour for the British and Colonial Aeroplane Co, demonstrated the Bristol Boxkite to representatives of the Australian Army headquarters, leading to the eventual aircraft order on Bristols to supply the first 5 aircraft for Point Cook.

in June 1913 Gustave Adami attempted to establish a flying school at the same site at Altona Bay called Australasian Aviation P/L using two Bleriots and flying commenced in August 1913.

While none of these flights took place on the future Point Cook airfield site itself, the nearby flights of Cugnet and Hammond were certainly instrumental in attracting the attention to the area as an alternative to the original intended site at Duntroon in Canberra, that resulted in the 1913 land purchase.

Interestingly the RAAF’s third oldest base – Richmond in NSW, also still operational for C130s’ etc, and established as a RAAF base in 1926, had earlier been the site of a NSW State owned flying school for the AFC during WW1 formed in April 1916.

Yet even earlier in March 1912 the same site, then known as Ham Common had been the site of Harts Flying School – coicidentally using a Bristol Boxkite purchased from J J Hammond, thereby pre-dating flying at Point Cook.

Unfortunately the 1916 WW1 Hangar built by the NSW Government was demolished by Defence in the 1980’s at Richmond having survived some 70 years, and today the oldest built heritage on the site is a 1930’s hangar.

Luckily most of Point Cook’s early buildings from 1914 to the 1920’s do still exist, although 3 WW1 Hangars lost between 1920 and 1980, (unfortunately two wooden hangars were apparantly “condemned” because someone had their eye on their timber material which apparantly ended up in a beach house?

The survivors are now protected through Heritage listing and many have recently been refurbished.

Point Cook is one of the oldest surviving airfields in the world and in particular still retains its 1916 WW1 seaplane base largely intact.

Important as the birthplace of Australian military aviation and the cradle of Australian Civil Aviation (the civil air branch was a branch of the Defence Department until the late 1930s), a number of historic flights departed from Point Cook, first south north crossing of the continent, first circumnavigation of the continent, first non-stop east-west crossing of the continent, first international flight by an Australian aircraft, first return flight to the UK, first air mail flight to PNG.

Aviation pioneers directly associated with Point Cook not only include RAAF pioneers such as Williams, Wackett etc, but also civilian trailblazers such as Duigan, Kingsford Smith, Ulm, Alan Cobham and CWA Scott.

Point Cook’s future has been uncertain since 1992 when RAAF basic flying training ceasedon the site and it was vacated for intended sale and expected residential re-development.

A public campaign from 1998 through to 2003 saw government commitments to its retention as home for the RAAF Museum and retention as an operating airfield, in August 2003 the Government announced it would be sold “free-hold”, 6 months later after further public campaigning that decision was reversed with the February 2004 announcement it would remain in public ownership, and then the October 2005 announcement that it would be retained indefinately for Defence Use.

It is an important aviation heritage site not only to Australia as Australia’s oldest operating airfield with a very rich Military and civil history, but also important world wide as an intact WW1 airfield and seaplane base, and its links to AFC operations in Iraq, Egypt and France in WW1.

It is expected to be subject to a further major Government announcement concerning its future in the very near future.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

RF769
We nearly lost our little “OLD” airfield a few years ago. The City council was looking to close it down and make it half park and half condos. A group formed up to save the airfield.

They did a big public relations camgaign to show the value, utility and history of the airfield as well as the economic benifits and jobs that the field bring to the community.

I know one of the leaders of that “Action Group”. If you like, I could see if I could get some of their campaign information and tactics from him that help to save our field. It may help save yours.

Chris