Its doubtful that the AG will be in service so soon. (i.e. 5 years) I will take several years at least for her to become fully operational. Its a very complex undertaking with many unknown factors.

And the known ‘unknown’ factors almost always have been the non-Russian systems that had to be integrated into the specs that India mostly gave when customizing, and these in almost all cases earlier was affected coz of the sanctions and the non-availability of the funds for the Indian Defence services. And FYI the Gorshkov will be handed over after up gradation by end 2008 or after 4 yrs but 5 yrs is still ok and no probs abt that.

First the ship will need to be refitted. Then basically torn apart and reconstructed.

And u got any probs with refitting, tearing apart and then again reconstructing????

Even after its completion there will be much training and work ups………If, we see the AG fully combat ready in 10 years. I would consider it to be a near miracle.

yup and u definitely forgot the Kuznetsov or is that a forced memory loss?? …. IN’s chaps (air-wing) maybe able to get themselves trained on the Russian carrier in case there is more work to be done. And training and work up are the wildest card that u cud have got to bash the Russians man … but then let me say again that its not gonna be a miracle, coz practically the Gorshkov was stamped as ‘meant for India’ ever since Boris Yeltsin learned the hard lesson and started his ‘look east policy’ which made him gift the carrier to India restarting the new era of Indo-Russian cooperation which was nearly stagnant ever since that chap took over and was selling off Russia to western business Tycoons. The gift was also to revitalize the ship building industry and the RAC-MiG which needed contract for furthering their newer projects development. And this deal was a done deal ever since then, but the monetary part was the only one which basically stalled or delayed the deal for so long. After all u need to understand that for EARNING One dollar – Indian Navy had to first EARN 48 Indian Rupees and that’s nothing mean. And the deal was for $1.5Billion.

So in a sense by the time 2008-9, it wud bt already 13 yrs since theoretically the Gorshkov was handed over to India. And u don need to worry abt IN, they know their stff much better than the other two services abd much much better than some western so-called ‘experts’.

Beside Russia and India’s track record in this regard isn’t so good. On the other hand the Invincible could be incorporated within the Indian Navy relatively easy.

really?? …. Can u elaborate that ‘relative’ easy term ?? …. And how much of a track record do u know abt Indo-Russian relations or deals?? ….. did u know how much yrs the Indian Navy took for its Build up to its best yrs after the last war with Pakistan, in 1971?? … and many ex-naval guys will rem (of course not the modern day $$ funded and influenced chaps reporting) the Soviet Admiral Gorshkov who had his part in building-up of the Indian Navy and do u know how much delay was there in the Kashin class destroyers that India bought from Russia or the delay in the Kilo’s that India got from Russia or say the custom made An-32 which the Russians made for an Indian requirement and not for their own?? Well I shud be insane asking u that …. if u got any pain seeing the Russians getting some bugs out of the deal and a fear of a revitalized Russian industries and others, I cant help u out …

Remember, that India already flies the same Aircraft (Harriers/SeaKings) as the RN does on the Invincible class carriers.

yes and that’s the only reason y I’d like the Invincible to be in here only if come for a decent price of below $100million and since the IN’s current carrier wont be there for long Invincible can either take care of that Harriers till 2015, but I want the Invincible be made into Helo carrier for amphibious ops etc etc , but the Harrier chapter has to end by 2015, anything even further mean the British will dump all that in here and make another headache for the Indian tax-payers and Indian navy.

Further, India doesn’t have to buy SHAR’s. (would be a good idea) They can use there current complement of Harriers and SeaKings.

yup, but these chaps will soon be goin out, and the first one out has to be the Sea Kings, replace it with the NH-90’s and so can this be the main stay of the Invincible ONLY IF it comes for a decent enough price.

The main problem for India in the short term is the platform. (i.e. ship) The current AirWing will do find for the next 10 years or so.

The current air-wing will do just fine till the max of 2015 , hope u forgot that the Harrier that IN operate was ex-RN harriers , and did u see the manufactures put the service life of the Harriers anywhere near to 40 yrs?? Which means Harriers chapter has to close at 2015 at max , and no more SHAR in btn that period where by the IN has to take the burden of keeping the Harrier service depot open much longer. This was just recently opened and all that may point out that the foxy British might be cooking up ideas and advices that —– “look now that u got a service depot, u can buy our newer Harrier and also make bugs by servicing others harrier” —— and that advice and idea wud be what the cunning guys wud be now selling to the idiots in the Indian Govt and IN and why to wonder abt that , it can be seen in here too.

But, that doesn’t do you much good without a ship to fly them from! So, in the near future India could have a modern VTOL Carrier (2-3 years at most) for little money (Remember, what Brazil paid for the Foch…..peanuts) until the AG and ADS carriers enter service………………..IMHO

k can u tell me who much peanuts did that Foch cost???

And FYI the French carrier Foch first entered the French service in 1963 and now she has got 41 yrs to her service , and if am not wrong Brazil is gonna decommission it by 2005 or before 2010, but if they got it for peanuts, even then fine, as the carrier did not had much time left for service and the time they can squeeze out of that will do good for them when they have a new carrier in the future. In all they will get atleast 5 yrs of experience from it starting from 2001 – 2006. But I hope the Brazilian’s don loose their carrier capability and start building one so that these men can change over to the new one and also make sure the hard earned training don go waste like what happened to the Indian Navy’s N-submariners. They were forced out coz neither the Indian Govt or Boris Yeltsin under the influence of ‘Godly advice’ were ready to extend the lease of the N-sub to the Indian Navy anymore.

Hey, Glenn what are your thoughts on the subject?

Australia never ever was happy with any of Indian Naval programs, and if u did not know, the main ally of Unkil against the Indian Navy in this part of the world was (and still is) the Australian Navy, but IN simply pulled it away from them in the mid-80’s, but definitely I’m waiting for a chance next time the Australian P-3C Orion shadow any other IN ships like they did after the ‘98’ N-test on INS Delhi for updating the list of USN’s ‘library’. I’d like the Govt to show some guts and shoot at least a warning short next time these guys do that and so wud I’ve loved to see the American U-2 that crossed the Pokhran N-test site after ‘98’ being shot down. Which unfortunately did not happen even after the AD units locked on to it … and did the mistake of asking for permission, answer to which was in negative.

Russia and India have had several military projects together. From Frigates to Fighters (Su-30) none of which have been on time or budget! The AG and its Airwing (Mig29K & NLCA) may very well be the way forward for the Indian Navy. Its going to be a very long wait anyway you look at it……

and have u ever checked on to y that never was on time u ??? well I can safely assume it’s a big No. Yup its been a very long time since 96 as the IN simply did not have the funds which made the price quoted by the Russians to be fullfilled very difficulty coz u know Indian Rupee HAD NO VALUE against the dollars. But since u don know any stuff, let me tell u that , the Gorshkov have been clean up fully by 2003 end or to be more precise before the contract was signed which was a MANDATORY clause in the deal, which means that , Gorshkov will be/was handed over to Indian Navy like it was in 96 or when the ship was in operation in the Russian navy before it went out-of service. And from there on the modification that the Indian Navy has request for will be carried out which will make the carrier 65-70 % new.