1/4 scale RR Griffon 65

Engine models

Perhaps the time is nigh for one of the major model manufacturers to make a series of decent-sized (say 1/5 or 1/6 scale) self-assembly plastic model kits of famous engines such as the Merlin (of course), Piston Pegasus, Hercules, Sabre?
With advances in resin moulding and etched metal for some of the parts along with CAD/CAM for their manufacture, I bet these would be very popular with modellers and museums around the world.
These could be a “UK range” with, possibly a couple of older ones such as a Lion or a Puma for more of a historic spread.
A range of US engines would be nice, perhaps entitled “war winners” and could include the Allison V-1710, P&W R-1830, P&W B-series R-2800 and a two-stage Packard Merlin such as the V-1650-3.
Modellers are prepared to pay decent prices for the large-scale aircraft models of the moment such as £80 for a 1/32 Phantom, £20-30 for the 1/48 and 1/32 mass produced offerings all of which pack in superb detail and markings into the box. The new Airfix 1/24 Mosquito (due out this summer) will be retailing for about £80 and there is already a large waiting list for it – something unheard of even only about 5 years ago.
Just an idea, though I realise I may be biased – being a modeller and collector of mid 20th century aviation hardware.

What do you think (Airfix?)

The miniature DB601 will be finished this spring so I will post some photos of the completed engine on the Forum. It will be a fully-working engine and will be run before it goes abroad for display with a private collector.

Anon.

So what I want to know is that when is some enterprising person going to produce a 1/4 scale, non-running, relatively inexpensive model of a Merlin XX (or other mark) that can be assembled as a desktop display model?

Breathtaking engineering…..

Well said, they look amazing.

Daimler Benz Aero Engine

That engine is absolutely breathtaking!! Has it run yet? Are there drawngs available somewhere for this engine? Would love to procure a set even if I am unable to finish the project. The drawings themselves would provide much enjoyment and entertainment. My hat is off to your dad.

Don

Breathtaking engineering…..

Tony Walshaw’s DB601

Hopefully, here are the pics which should have attached to my earlier post:
DB601 engine

Anon.

Nice Deltic. Those pipes look gold-plated to me. But why does it have spark plugs? I know that the Nomad used an ignition system of some sort, but not the Deltic as far as I knew?
Pete

That Deltic is petrol powered 🙂 & the brass pipes were machined in 2 halves & then silver soldered together.

Here are a few pics I took of Tony Walshaws M45 at a model show in Bolton a good while back. They look very much like the same engine featured on the magazine cover (even down to the parquet flooring) except for the black blades.
Mr Walshaw says he remembers the exhibition so it’s definitely his model.
Can Merlin Pete tell any other differences as they appear to be the same engine to me?
Note: mini rocker cover on floor.
Saw the latest project today, which is a DB601 in the final stages of construction. It is for a private collector in Barcelona. Just get an eyeful of this engine…

Yes, I agree, it is either the same one or one of the batch of three you mentioned.
I have spent ages looking at it and it really is spot-on. This is where engineering becomes an art form.
Still isn`t a Merlin 45 though! If the Spitfire stubs are correct for this engine it would be a 55, although that is a slightly unusual engine to make a model of.

Pete

all personal opinion at the end of the day, (and money 😉 )

What you can afford to lose I suppose.:D:D

Please lets not get into the “fly or don´t fly” debate with models!!

well i think the idea is, that the chap who sells castings (as i linked above) intends his engines to be flown as they’re not MASSIVELY detailed but still look the part.

barry hares’ engine is really, a unique engine, so personally, no i wouldnt risk flying that, but i would one of the afformentioned engines, all personal opinion at the end of the day, (and money 😉 )

Would you really risk flying one of these beautiful models? The thought of digging it out of a smoking hole in the ground is not a pleasant one!

Mini-Merlins

Here are a few pics I took of Tony Walshaws M45 at a model show in Bolton a good while back. They look very much like the same engine featured on the magazine cover (even down to the parquet flooring) except for the black blades.
Mr Walshaw says he remembers the exhibition so it’s definitely his model.
Can Merlin Pete tell any other differences as they appear to be the same engine to me?
Note: mini rocker cover on floor.
Saw the latest project today, which is a DB601 in the final stages of construction. It is for a private collector in Barcelona. Just get an eyeful of this engine…

Nice Deltic. Those pipes look gold-plated to me. But why does it have spark plugs? I know that the Nomad used an ignition system of some sort, but not the Deltic as far as I knew?

The pic attached is from the 20th Dec. 1985 edition of Model Engineer, and it sounds very much like what Mr Anon was describing. In fact this one is a Merlin 55 as it has two-piece blocks, but many of these were converted from Merlin 45s, as this one would have been because the ornate manfacturers plate was dispensed with sometime late in 1941, but Merlin 55s were assembled much later than this, late `42 and during `43. I tried to blow up the plate and read the Mark No from it, but no luck!

This therefore makes a mockery of my earlier post, as it appears to be as perfect a replica as Barry Hares Merlin, still, people with this kind of eye for detail must be one in a million!
There are a pair of static models in Derby Silk Mill Industrial Museum, a Merlin and an “R”, just two of many models completed by D A Russell, father of the late Mike Russell. I recall Mike telling me that they were made of wood with metal fittings, but you cannot tell. The Merlin apparently cost £600 in 1946.

Pete

Clen Tomlinson is the master of scale engines..
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm

I think he’s started on his Napier Saber…

so 4x 1/4 scale merlins on a 1/4 scale lancaster?……

anyone see where im going? 😀

they guys on my course at uni are well up for building a 1/4 scale vulcan, but def dont think that any of the current microturbines are up to the job…

You’re not going to actually build the thing from alloy, are you? :rolleyes:

If not, then they’re more than capable.

That possibly answers a question I have had for ages. I have the cover from a Model Engineer magazine with a Merlin which, although it looks like Barry Hares engine, it clearly isn`t on closer inspection, and the workmanship is indeed brilliant. I will dig that out and post it and we can see if we are singing from the same hymn sheet!!

Pete

The front cover for Jan ’83 edition of Model Engineer, shows a Merlin XX, the photo is credited to Barrie Hares, as is the very sparse text on page 13.

Building the engine started in ’76, and it is entirely machined from solid! it’s displacement is 185cc, and power output is estimated at only 3 bhp; even the magneto’s are working! spark plug gap is 0.005 in (and Pete thinks he gets problems with plug fouling!!)

Edited to show front cover of ME jan ’83

so 4x 1/4 scale merlins on a 1/4 scale lancaster?……

anyone see where im going? 😀

they guys on my course at uni are well up for building a 1/4 scale vulcan, but def dont think that any of the current microturbines are up to the job…

i really cant wait to see barry hare’s eagle 22 fired up, would be magnificent!

Mini-Merlins

To answer Nashio 966’s query, as far as I remember they produce a lot of power, in fact more than scale. Remember that the 1/5 scale is a linear ratio so does not represent true power-to-scale.
For instance, it may be a fifth of the length but it’s very much less than a fifth of the weight – more like 40/1.
With a typical model weight of, say, 25kg, with good mixture distribution and all twelve cylinders producing full power it could drive a substantial (overscale) propeller quite easily.

To Merlin Pete: I think the engine was featured in a magazine.
I’ll be visiting Mr Walshaw tomorrow with some friends and if he is amenable I will take some photos of the currect projects and, with his permission, post a few on the forum.

Anon.

There’s a chap called Tony Walshaw, who lives in the southern Lake District and he has made model Merlins. IIRC he made three 1/5-scale Mk 45’s as a commission for Patrick Lindsay many years back (or it could have been one for Mr Lindsay and two for himself). Anyway, I have seen one of these close up and his work is outstanding. I think the engine ran, or was capable of running.
It included an equally outstanding Rotol prop boss and stub blades.
He has also made a DB605 and, I think, is presently making a Centaurus for a private client.
I’ll dig out the pics of the Merlin and post ’em.

Anon.

That possibly answers a question I have had for ages. I have the cover from a Model Engineer magazine with a Merlin which, although it looks like Barry Hares engine, it clearly isn`t on closer inspection, and the workmanship is indeed brilliant. I will dig that out and post it and we can see if we are singing from the same hymn sheet!!

Pete

i wonder what sort of power output these engines would make? a scaled down power?

Ben