168 from China

168 hull is angeled somewhat but no to the extent of lafayette also the sheet metal for the superstructure just seem to pop up and doesnt seem to smoothly incoporated into design.

It reduces the RCS somewhat making it somewhat easiar to decoy missiles away with EW/ECM . Clean design helps for the crew to operate = efficency, it also helps with damage control.

question should what is definition of stealth feature? because there is lot more to stealth than just design with small rcs, u also need to worry bout heat and noise. These days every single navy seem to be building vessels with small rcs even many coast gaurd cutters have angeled superstructure and everthing but the question is how many vessels out there are indeed stealthy in all aspects.

well your question on what is the defination of stealth features seems to sum up all the differences we have. all the points you make about the 168’s design not being stealthy is based on you thinking that it is not as stealthy as the lafayette, but since when has the lafayette because the benchmark to stealth?

in my view, if a ship’s design can help to reduce its RCS more then purely symbolic in that it can give the ship an advantage in real life situations, then i would class the design as stealth/stealthy.

Jons:
That is why 168 is stealthy, not stealth. It has many RCS reduction features, and from the size of the funnels, IR reduction as well.

please! go and look at the pics of 168 again and find one surface that is perpendicular to the water that isnt a missile launchrail or blastshield for the missile launchrail.

168 hull is angeled somewhat but no to the extent of lafayette also the sheet metal for the superstructure just seem to pop up and doesnt seem to smoothly incoporated into design.

just think about it, what is the point in making a warship’s structure clean without meaning it to be stealthy? commerical cruise ships want to look nice to attract passengers, but what does a warship have to gain from a clean structure besides stleath?

It reduces the RCS somewhat making it somewhat easiar to decoy missiles away with EW/ECM . Clean design helps for the crew to operate = efficency, it also helps with damage control.

also, if what you say is true, then one warship from china doesnt have stealth features at all, but another warship built in china a few months later has stealth features? what does that mean? that china has suddenly made a quantum leap in stealthy ship design in a couple of months?

question should what is definition of stealth feature? because there is lot more to stealth than just design with small rcs, u also need to worry bout heat and noise. These days every single navy seem to be building vessels with small rcs even many coast gaurd cutters have angeled superstructure and everthing but the question is how many vessels out there are indeed stealthy in all aspects.

they are not supposed to be stealthy in first place they are supposed to be clean design as opposed to 054 ffg if u notice the superstructure for both ddgs is not angeled at all how is it gonna reflect any radar waves unless china some sort of radar cancellation or RAM coating on it? Just because a vessel has clean layout doesnt make them stealth I have seen a lot civilian vessels that have hulls similar to this doesnt exactly mean those vessels are stealthy.

please! go and look at the pics of 168 again and find one surface that is perpendicular to the water that isnt a missile launchrail or blastshield for the missile launchrail.

just think about it, what is the point in making a warship’s structure clean without meaning it to be stealthy? commerical cruise ships want to look nice to attract passengers, but what does a warship have to gain from a clean structure besides stleath?

also, if what you say is true, then one warship from china doesnt have stealth features at all, but another warship built in china a few months later has stealth features? what does that mean? that china has suddenly made a quantum leap in stealthy ship design in a couple of months?

Stealth is overrated for ships, IMO.

the design of the hull is actually quite stealthy, its all the domes, missile launchrails and rocket launchers that spoils the effect. the reason for it is that china probably dont have the ability to design compact, stealthy sensors and VLS

they are not supposed to be stealthy in first place they are supposed to be clean design as opposed to 054 ffg if u notice the superstructure for both ddgs is not angeled at all how is it gonna reflect any radar waves unless china some sort of radar cancellation or RAM coating on it? Just because a vessel has clean layout doesnt make them stealth I have seen a lot civilian vessels that have hulls similar to this doesnt exactly mean those vessels are stealthy.

Some more from CMF:

Has the PLAN taken over? :confused:

Not to mention that the 052Bs were a rush job after the HHQ-9 system was delayed, and they were forced to re-design. If you look at the 052C, it is a lot more stealthy.
Also note the 054 which is designed a little later, and has the best stealth features.

I am also surprised by the numbers of non-stealthy features everywhere. I doubt the boat will have a real stealth advantage. Maybe the stealthy caracteristics are only coming from hull commonality and because of the electronic suite and radars they don’t expect it to be stealthy.

the design of the hull is actually quite stealthy, its all the domes, missile launchrails and rocket launchers that spoils the effect. the reason for it is that china probably dont have the ability to design compact, stealthy sensors and VLS (the VLS in 170/171 are more like a transitional type until a cell based system can be perfected) for ships of that size, so need to rely on a large number of bulky equipment. as for the rocket launchers, well since the stealth charateristics are already compramised, they might as well add some more capacity and/or save some expence my adding fixed types instead of using retractable or intergrated systems.

these ships will be in serice for decades, and there is no reason to think that china will not have developed the ability to design and produce sensors and weapons that meet the requirements of a stealthy warship before then, and these will probably be intergrated into these ships during a refit later on. this way china can enjoy the use of fairly advanced warships today that will still have alot of potential for improvement even after a few years in service.

[QUOTE=Indian1973….(2) I see four banks of rockets behind the Shtil. assume they are
ASW rockets ?[/QUOTE]

chaff launchers, ASW rockets are the ones in front of the main gun.

More hot photoes …

I am also surprised by the numbers of non-stealthy features everywhere. I doubt the boat will have a real stealth advantage. Maybe the stealthy caracteristics are only coming from hull commonality and because of the electronic suite and radars they don’t expect it to be stealthy.

At least they are making an effort in the right direction I guess.

Yes the hangar is not large but I am surprised by its height …
The Ka-28 is tall because of its contr-rotating rotors, but not that tall I think.

I am also surprised by the numbers of non-stealthy features everywhere. I doubt the boat will have a real stealth advantage. Maybe the stealthy caracteristics are only coming from hull commonality and because of the electronic suite and radars they don’t expect it to be stealthy.

oh never mind – the aft Shtil launcher makes the hanger very
small.

(1) are you sure about the 1 KA-28 ? ships of this size usually
carry two.

(2) I see four banks of rockets behind the Shtil. assume they are
ASW rockets ?

168(052B), 169(052B), 170(052C) and 525(054) in ZhouShan yesterday!

Impressive shot! I must say you can see the similarity in the designs well with this shot. Finanly the PLAN is starting to look like a modern state-of-the-art force. Let’s see if they can perform as well as they look.

Thanks digdream.. 🙂

So 170 is finished and is moving in its own power now?

170 hasn’t been finished, just a test trip.
And only 168 enters service now …

So 170 is finished and is moving in its own power now?